Sled vs. trailer for downhill wood hauling

[TomOfTarsus]

I have a fairly steep plot of land with all my potential firewood uphill from me. One thought I had for bringing it down would be a sliding box. If proprtioned properly and hung from the 3 pt hitch, I could even use it as an "emergency brake" of sorts.

I figure with a load of wood in the bucket, having a box on the 3pt would balance me out, and, as I said, if it seemed like I was starting to slip, I could lower the 3 pt and let the sled dig in.

I have about 2 hrs total seat time, so I'm inexperienced in the extreme. Does this concept sound reasonable? Has anybody done something like this? I did a few different seaches across the boards and came up empty, which made me wonder if I was (a) very original or (b) too stoopid to know it'll never work!

BTW the path I would use is probably about 15 -20 deg , but I can go straight up and down, no crossways stuff.

 

[Egon]

What length are you bringing down?

 

[shinnlinger]

Tom,

You are talking about dangerous stuff and I can't officially recomend you do it.

THat said, you didn't buy a tractor to only mow your lawn, so if it were me, I would drag the logs "full lenght" down the hill using a 3pt "logging plate" in low gear with the revs high and seat belt on.(you do have a roll bar right?)

YOu can drag the logs if you get in trouble, but dirty logs will dull your chainsaw, so I would try to keep the front high and only drag the back if you can get away with it. Your sled idea (old car hood) might be a way to keep your logs clean if it is not to much trouble for you to build.

The idea behind using a logging plate is that you want to keep the front of the log from catching on a stump and flipping the tactor over backwards. If you simply attach the log to your three point setup, make sure you attach a short chain to your tractor frame so that if a log does get caught it pulls on the lower part of your tractor frame not from some point above the drawbar.

That is what will flip you over, a high center of gravity attachment. THese tractors, even the little ones, have lots of power and they can get you in trouble real quick. Go SLOW, Be very wary of stumps and other hangups, and have your hand on the 3pt lever so you can drop your load at a moments notice.

THe reason for the high revs in LOW gear is so that you wont blow your engine if the logs push you down the hill. Tractor brakes are not designed to haul 10,000 lbs to a halt at 50 mph. I once was going to fast down the road with a big load of logs on my trailer when I went down a hill. Oh boy did that have "pucker factor"! I had to push in the clutch to save the motor, but then it was hold on! NOT GOOD! GO SLOW on the hills, and GOOD LUCK!

 

[TomOfTarsus]

Thank you men. The idea was to bring down firewood length, so I don't have to drag a big log thru the yard.

But then, if I am dragging a sled, I'm not much better off, am I? Plus, there are some trees up there that would make beautiful saw logs, so perhaps I should just do as shinnlinger says and plan on bringing down the big boys. About the biggest log I'd bring down at one time would be a 2000# or so. And I figured to have a bucketful in the FEL to balance me somewhat.

I am concerned about the thing pushing me. I figured instead of a car hood, I'd use wood runners or something that will pretty much have to be dragged unless it's on a slope so steep that I couldn't drive on it anyway. That's why I thought a sled could act as a "rudder" or e-brake at least. But then I'd need to equip it with som wheels and jacks so I could get it up on wheels when I get to the yard. DDW (dear, disgusted wife, see siggie) don't like huge ruts in her yard!

Starting to sound like Rube Goldberg here...

 

[brandoro]

If you are going to pull some longer heavier logs I would try a smaller one first to get an idea if they will stay behind the tractor okay or if they will try to push it. If they push then a trick that can help a lot is to take a spare chain and put a few wraps around the log to add friction. The chain will chew up the ground some but better than letting the log be boss.
If you have front wheel assist it is a very good idea to use that when descending any hills but especially when you have weight in the FEL. Tractor brakes are only on the rear axle so front wheel assist will help a bit by transferring some braking force to the front wheels through the driveline. If no front wheel assist then make sure to keep ample weight on the rear axle.
I once had a short but too exciting ride down a small hill with a bucket full of damp sand and not quite enough counterweight on the rear. Much more carefull about having the front axle engaged on hills after that.

 

[Egon]

Surprisingly those buckets make for great brakes when they engage the ground!

Pulling a long log downhill should not be a problem. All you have to do is lower the three point and the log should stop. Leave a few branches on and it will add to the control.

But if you have a large roundish rock back there it may be a different matter!

 

[TomOfTarsus]

Brandoro: It is a 4wd machine, is that what you meant by "front assist"? As you're probably thinking, only one of those front wheels is really driving, anyway...

And yes, Egon, the trick (as I understand) is how do you drop the bucket and 3 ph when you're sliding, screaming like a girl, and soiling yourself?! I use my seatbelt and have a ROPS, but I'm greener'n grass with tractor ops. NO way would you fid me with a "large roundish rock" back there!

See, guys, I figure to some extent weight is weight... and I can keep the sawdust and mess up in the woods if I build a box for the firewood (I have to have the saw up there anyway)... Now I could tow it off the drawbar directly, but I thought with it mounted from the 3 ph I could govern it's contact with the ground better. Adding "landing gear" was an afterthought when I got to thinking I'd still mess up the yard dragging the sled through it. You see, I have 6.5 acres, but I'm pretty much surrounded by homes on much smaller lots, with no road access, so I'm limited as to the routes I can take down the hill.

But I'm gathering such is not the usual practice, as there is not a std. attachment for that purpose, and response to this thread is kinda low, so apparently smarter, more experienced minds have deemed it a vain effort.

 

[Treemonkey1000]

One thing to watch out for not being familiar with your tractor if you are hauling a large log that weighs close to what your tractor weighs. Then watch so that going down a hill the log doesn't roll around past your tractor and cause bad things to happen. Then end of the log not attached to the tractor can swing on past you on slopes if you aren't dragging them in a ditch or something to keep them centered behind the tractor. There is a really good thread on here about lifting and carrying logs. You probably already saw it? A log dolly would be a good way to prevent some yard damage and putting so much dirt and crud into the log to dull your saw.

 

[arrow]

Tom
There is quite a bit of difference between a 15% and 20% grade. The first thing I would not consider is adding weight to the tractor with an attached sled or putting any type of wheels to the load such as a trailer. I would invest in or build a log hog (Northern products...$249). Going downhill you actually have physics working on your behalf as far as back flipping your small tire circumference tractor. You have much tractor weight pointing downhill. (of course this would work in reverse going uphill) Try not to drag anything over 18" wide unless its only 12' long and being new, cut up the bottom of your plot first untill you get a feel for such a load. Bringing home logs this way, you will always have a load acting as a break as long as the logs do not hit the back of the tractor. You'll make out surprisingly well if you go slow and get experienced with lighter stuff first. You can sled the firewood length as long as you are dragging the sled with a chain so that there is no contact between the two.

To advise on a 20% grade, which as you know would be 20' higher for a given 400' run, I would want to see the terrain before I'd advise someone new to skidding to encounter such a grade. if you can, you may want to practice on as level a ground as permissable first and gradually increase your experience dealing with a slope if you decide to skid logs down.

 

[TomOfTarsus]

Thanks again, men. Arrow, it's 15 - 20 degrees, not %. Which is worse, I calc 20% grade as 11.3 degrees. Fortunately, the routes already established by water & quad riders from years past would tend to keep a log centered.

I do recall a log sledding thread but I should re-read it. I'll check out the "log hog." I'm kinda surprised at the recommendation that the sled be drug by a chain and not off the 3ph. Why is this better? Is my thought that increasing the skidding force by lowering the 3ph wrong (i.e. i might unload my rear tires and that's a bad thing)?

The wheels I mentioned would be retracted during sledding, and only jacked up once I got to the nicer (and leveler) section of my land, which my DDW would be doubly disgusted to see all torn up.

Thanks again for all the advice. Many, many times I see how an engineering degree just can't compete with experience.