water 4 gas anyone look in to this.

   / water 4 gas anyone look in to this. #121  
too much fear over 3 mile isle, and chery over in ruski land..

soundguy
 
   / water 4 gas anyone look in to this. #122  
A big problem we have also is our grid system. I have heard talk of putting windmills in the Dakota's or solar in the Desert. The grid is not set up for it and even if it was 40%+ is lost during transmission.

Chris
 
   / water 4 gas anyone look in to this. #123  
nothing like 'giving some back' eh?

soundguy
 
   / water 4 gas anyone look in to this. #124  
A big problem we have also is our grid system. I have heard talk of putting windmills in the Dakota's or solar in the Desert. The grid is not set up for it and even if it was 40%+ is lost during transmission.

Chris

That is why farmers and other land owners should put smaller sources on line. Since they are distributed and the power is used localy they will actually lower the load on the grid.

Long transcontinetal transmission lines could be DC. DC lines have much smaller losses and are actually cheaper to build because they have only two wires. Big electric motor/generators placed on both ends have very high efficiencies at least as good as transformers. Also DC curent doesn't cause so called skin effect so the wires can carry more load and/or generate less heat.
 
   / water 4 gas anyone look in to this. #125  
That is why farmers and other land owners should put smaller sources on line. Since they are distributed and the power is used localy they will actually lower the load on the grid.

Long transcontinetal transmission lines could be DC. DC lines have much smaller losses and are actually cheaper to build because they have only two wires. Big electric motor/generators placed on both ends have very high efficiencies at least as good as transformers. Also DC curent doesn't cause so called skin effect so the wires can carry more load and/or generate less heat.


Care to back that up? It's exactly 180 degrees off of what I have been taught. If you go back to the FIRST hydro-electric dam at Niagara Falls, Mr. Edison and Mr Tesla fought that battle. Tesla won because AC transmission is much lower loss than DC transmission.

Now, I could have that wrong, but .....I doubt it.

jb
 
   / water 4 gas anyone look in to this. #126  
Care to back that up? It's exactly 180 degrees off of what I have been taught. If you go back to the FIRST hydro-electric dam at Niagara Falls, Mr. Edison and Mr Tesla fought that battle. Tesla won because AC transmission is much lower loss than DC transmission.

Now, I could have that wrong, but .....I doubt it.

jb

Well, you are right and wrong in the same time. They didn't worry about losses back then but delivery. To deliver power economically over ceratain distance you have to increase voltage to dangerous levels and then lower it again to more usable lower levels close to the users. Transformers could do it. As the voltage and distance was increased the issue of losses become more and more prominent. In addition to leakage loss, the AC lines act as transformers and capacitors against the ground inducing current into ground and that is loss. As the voltage increases the current flows only trough the surface of the wires limiting the capacity etc. The advantage of AC is ease of delivery.
In contrary the DC lines don't induce current to ground, current travels in the whole cross section of the wires etc. They suffer leakage losses similar to AC lines. Problem is delivery to users. So the DC lines are practical only for long distances. In the beginning AC is converted to high voltage DC and on the other end closer to the users back to AC.

Few of such lines are in operation for almost 50 years in Russia because of many Russian sources of hydro power are located in very remote areas. I think some are around 2000 miles long.
There several of them in a proposal and/or project phase in USA and Canada.

Google for DC transmission lines to get more info or just click http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/et/rpt/2003-R-0530.htm
 
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   / water 4 gas anyone look in to this. #127  
Well, you are right and wrong in the same time. They didn't worry about losses back then but delivery. To deliver power economically over ceratain distance you have to increase voltage to dangerous levels and then lower it again to more usable lower levels close to the users. Transformers could do it. As the voltage and distance was increased the issue of losses become more and more prominent. In addition to leakage loss, the AC lines act as transformers and capacitors against the ground inducing current into ground and that is loss. As the voltage increases the current flows only trough the surface of the wires limiting the capacity etc. The advantage of AC is ease of delivery.
In contrary the DC lines don't induce current to ground, current travels in the whole cross section of the wires etc. They suffer leakage losses similar to AC lines. Problem is delivery to users. So the DC lines are practical only for long distances. In the beginning AC is converted to high voltage DC and on the other end closer to the users back to AC.

Few of such lines are in operation for almost 50 years in Russia because of many Russian sources of hydro power are located in very remote areas. I think some are around 2000 miles long.
There several of them in a proposal and/or project phase in USA and Canada.

Google for DC transmission lines to get more info or just click Feasibility of DC Transmission Line

Red is correct in this, but in addition you can use superconductors for DC and this will be even more efficient. Back in the early days they did not have a good way of changing voltage with DC. Now we have electronics that can do that.
 
   / water 4 gas anyone look in to this. #128  
Red is correct in this, but in addition you can use superconductors for DC and this will be even more efficient. Back in the early days they did not have a good way of changing voltage with DC. Now we have electronics that can do that.

DC lines technology is proven and is available today. If the power could be moved from one coast to another that would save quite a bit of power wasted in example by street lights. If you don't know it the reason we have street light was not safety (there is some safety aspect too) but necessary load to keep coal burning plant running at night.
 
   / water 4 gas anyone look in to this. #129  
Hmmmm Right and wrong at the same time? Story of my life!

jb
 
   / water 4 gas anyone look in to this. #130  
For anyone interested, this 'Smack' guy seems seems to be something of a guru in this game.

http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/
Theres some impressive and genuine sounding testimonials here. Hard to believe they are getting this sort of improvement simply by lean running.
 

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