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  1. #11
    Silver Member
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    Mar 2008
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    122
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    Canaan, NH
    Tractor
    Kubota L2850

    Default Re: rough cut lumber anyone know about it

    I have a sawmill and I have built alot of things with green lumber. from sheds to barns to houses

    First off, many building inspectors say they only like inspected lumber, but they may not know the actual requirements for your area. I would first look up your local law and you can frequently find that a common sense inspection of the lumber is sufficient. ie, you do not put a huge knot in the middle of a beam or purlin, but you can probably get away with it in a post. I doubt this will be an issue for a machinery shed, but I wanted to post this so others may not give up the idea of using a local sawyer to mill up some trees you have on your property.

    As for the lumber itself, alot has to do with species and how it was milled. White pine is very stable and if stickered as toy suggests, will serve you well, but it is also important that the sawyer "box the heart" on beams. That means you ideally want to see the center of the growth rings when you look at the end of the beam in the center of beam. by rolling the log as you mill you equalize the pressure and the timbers tend to stay pretty straight. IF I put a 26" diameter pine on my mill and start whacking off 2x's without rolling the log, I can pretty much guarantee you most of those 2x4's will be warped to uselessness. Many will curl up right on the mill. This is less of an issue with boards as they are narrower and have less stress. Trees that grew on hillsides can also be problematic

    ON the subject of 2x's, they are a standard cut for big production mills. They have saws that will literally mill an entire tree into 2x all at once. Your local mill cannot compete with that so you may be sticker shocked if you get a quote on 2x4's. ON the other hand, boards and beams you cannot get at Home Cheapo, and that is where local mills can give you something unique at a good price. Even though I have a mill, I frequently buy my 2x4's and 6's from a building supply center.

    As a rule, when I cut a timber frame, I cut it green. It is much easier and I want to get the timbers locked in place before they can warp. I will cut my tennons a little short or drill my mortices a little deeper so that when the timber does shrink it won't be much of an issue. If I were to pile a bunch of timber under tin for a few years, inevitably, some would warp and I would have to cut those timbers and wait a few more years or build or find a kiln.

    Wood shrinks in width not length and as already been mentioned, it will shrink around a nail. Metal fasteners for rough cut are expensive, but I have welded my own custom brackets or even just drill holes in some steel plate to join timbers if you want a cheap and easy way. Your local machine shop will do this for you. I have a neighbor though who simple cuts the ends of beams to fit standard steel fastners. If you are having your lumber milled, you can ask the sawyer to cut to whatever you want. He or she would be happy to make you 3-9/16s by 3 and 9/16s and that will probably end up just right for a 4x4 fastener with EWP.

    As for siding, I prefer board and batten. It is designed for green wood. You nail only one side of the board and then go back only nailing the center of the batten, so the wood can move the way it wants without splitting. I use ring shank nails. I have a big planer mill near me that sells seconds of KD shiplap for only .33 a board ft, which is only a whistle more than what I would charge you to cut YOUR trees, so look around.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails rough cut lumber anyone know about it-img_7508-jpg  
    Last edited by shinnlinger; 06-20-2010 at 10:10 PM.
    Shinnlinger

    34 horse Kubota L2850, JD 690B excavator,
    52 GMC Dump Truck, Turner Bandmill

  2. #12
    Platinum Member rimshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    657
    Location
    Michigan
    Tractor
    Kioti CK2510 HST

    Default Re: rough cut lumber anyone know about it

    I have built houses and garages out of rough Pine & Balsam for years. I always took time to run the 2 x 4's to size up the 4" dimension. I didn't care about the thickness of the 2" unless they were used for plates. Same thing for flooor joists.

    I once built a house using 2 X 4 rough cut and air dried lumber after it had been stuck (stacked with air spaces fro wood strips). This stuff had been outside air dried for 6 months. It was as dry as it was going to get short of kiln drying.

    So once framed up, I plumbed, wired, insulated and drywalled entire house including painting and carpeting. As soon as I got the place done I rented the house to a friend who heated with wood stove over the winter.

    Well, I thought that framing lumber was dry but that wood stove actually kiln dried those studs and what do you think happened as a result? Wood manages to shrink a slight bit as it drys and when it does it pops nails and even screws. Every nail had to be reset in my nicely finished drywall.

    I chuckle telling that story now days but it wasn't funny 35 years ago when I completed that place.

    rimshot
    CK2510 HST , Kioti front snow blower,backhoe, FEL, Pallet forks and 5' box blade

  3. #13
    Elite Member
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    Apr 2009
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    3,202
    Location
    adirondacks

    Default Re: rough cut lumber anyone know about it

    I have a small mill and have built many things from pool decks to my house. The others have given sound advice and I also agree that rough cut is just as good, if not better then store bought "stuff". In fact I have a fit when I go to the box stores and have to buy a piece of wood. I usually end up unloading the whole stack of boards to find 1 or 2 pieces of decent lumber. As far as graded lumber goes you'll have to check with your local codes. IMO most mill folks have knowledge of what is good or bad. I've seen #2 graded lumber at the box stores that isn't worth a _____.

    Framing with green lumber is not an issue, as someone mentioned nails that have been pounded in while lumber was green are a bear to be brought back out after dried.

  4. #14
    Gold Member smiley's Avatar
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    Dec 2003
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    443
    Location
    Upstate NY

    Default Re: rough cut lumber anyone know about it

    [QUOTE=shinnlinger;1999976]

    As for siding, I prefer board and batten. It is designed for green wood. You nail only one side of the board and then go back only nailing the center of the batten, so the wood can move the way it wants without splitting. [/QUOTE

    I agree with shinnliger for the most part except when we built my house 35 yrs ago, we nailed both sides of the boards, angling toward the center, but nailed only one side of the battens, then went back the following year and nailed the other side. Most of the lumber came right off the mill that was set up about 100 ft away. We used blowdown pine trees they gave us from the waterworks next door, but we had to skid with a horse. The greenest one we used was the 32 ft main carrier that wasn't quite a blowdown yet. You know it takes quite a while to quietly fell and limb a 50 -60 ft tree with a bowsaw, after dark. The horse couldn't quite handle that one, but 400 ft of cable and a tractor did. It was peeled and in set in place within 1/2 hour after it hit the ground.


    We also used a lot of our own poplar for framing, barn siding and even built a stockade style log cabin with it. It's great wood as long as water can't stand on it or it will rot quickly. An old time builder neighbor said it was the prefered wood for dance hall floor joists, as it is very springy when dry.

    Not a great photo but no problems after 35 yrs.

    Smiley
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails rough cut lumber anyone know about it-007house-jpg  

  5. #15
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    122
    Location
    Canaan, NH
    Tractor
    Kubota L2850

    Default Re: rough cut lumber anyone know about it

    SMiley,

    Have you ever stained your boards? I don't know if I will mine.

    If I was nailing with common nails. I might nail both sides angled, but the ringshanks from my nail gun hold very well. I cannot pull the battens off. I also usually do 1x10 boards also, but narrower boards might be ok to nail both sides, but I wouldn't recommend it if you can ring-shank or screw the boards.
    Shinnlinger

    34 horse Kubota L2850, JD 690B excavator,
    52 GMC Dump Truck, Turner Bandmill

  6. #16
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    2
    Location
    Missour-ah
    Tractor
    Oliver 550, Farmall B cultivator

    Default Re: rough cut lumber anyone know about it

    We are talking machine shed here, not the Waldorf Astoria. I have built several out buildings from rough cut oak.
    We're talking major savings.

  7. #17
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    489
    Location
    Nashville, TN / Hickory, NC
    Tractor
    Kioti DK55C

    Default Re: rough cut lumber anyone know about it

    I hate to be dumb, what are you guys talking about when you say nail 'both sides'?
    Nashville/Hickory
    Kioti DK55c(no longer for sale), Hustler SuperZ, 72 Box Blade, Stihl HT101, International Machines 7ft Mower, Liebherr 631B, RV7

  8. #18
    Epic Contributor Egon's Avatar
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    Aug 2001
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    Nova Scotia, Canada

    Default Re: rough cut lumber anyone know about it

    I think it means that when looking at the board face on a nail is placed near each outside edge of the board.
    Egon
    50 years behind the times
    Livin in a
    Worn out skin bag filled with rattlin bones

  9. #19
    Silver Member
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    Mar 2008
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    Location
    Canaan, NH
    Tractor
    Kubota L2850

    Default Re: rough cut lumber anyone know about it

    ANd to be clear, I recommend nailing only one side of the board so that as the green wood shrinks it won't pull itself apart and split. I use ring shank nails and the batten nailed in the middle passing between the boards.
    Shinnlinger

    34 horse Kubota L2850, JD 690B excavator,
    52 GMC Dump Truck, Turner Bandmill

  10. #20
    Gold Member smiley's Avatar
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    Dec 2003
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    443
    Location
    Upstate NY

    Default Re: rough cut lumber anyone know about it

    Quote Originally Posted by shinnlinger View Post
    SMiley,

    Have you ever stained your boards? I don't know if I will mine.

    If I was nailing with common nails. I might nail both sides angled, but the ringshanks from my nail gun hold very well. I cannot pull the battens off. I also usually do 1x10 boards also, but narrower boards might be ok to nail both sides, but I wouldn't recommend it if you can ring-shank or screw the boards.
    Yes we used common nails and stained it back when creosote was used. It's lasted well all these years. We loved it as it weathers in various shades from dark brown to gold. Unfortunately some of the areas that catch the most weathering need it now and I don't know what to use. It absolutely will be some kind of penetrating stain not that so called solid stain, that peels off in short order. If anyone has found a good penetrating stain, let me know.
    Smiley

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