Dump trailer angle of the dangle

[CDN Farm Boy]

Anyone see anything NO GO about this?

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Artisan, your post finally convinced me to sign up.

While the geometry of this design says it will work, I wouldn't do it that way. Keep the cyl mounted in the direction of your original design. The direction of force from the cyl is away from the pin rather than towards it. In effect, most of the force will be trying to rip the mounts apart rather than dumping the load. You definately want the longer cyl of the second design (use the longest that you can fit) but keep the base of the cyl as far as you reasonably can from the hinge.

Another option, especially with the beef of your wagon frame is to use 2 cyl and mount them outboard on each side of the box. THis will greatly improve the starting angle. Look at one of the big articulated rock trucks as example.

 

[npalen]

The starting angle of the cylinder is important but not as important as the length of the lever arm. To get the length of the lever arm, extend the cylinder centerline (line of force) past the pivot point. Then measure the distance from the pivot point perpendicular to the cylinder centerline. using, say, a 4" diameter cylinder gives 12.56 (pi times radius squared) times the hydraulic pressure so at 1000 psi the cylinder generates 12560 lbs of force. If the length of the lever arm measured above is 12", for speaking purposes, a torque of 12,560 foot pounds of torque would be generated to lift the load.
If you had a box length of 10' and a 2000 lb load was centered front to back the load would require 10,000 foot lbs of torque (5' x2000) Adding a contingency factor of 10% for friction would require 11,000 foot lbs of torque. This is an oversimplication since other factors such as length of cylinder stroke and required dump angle all enter into the "equation".

 

[amazincaucasian]

Take a flat sheet of steel and shovel the stickiest material you think you'll haul on it. You can prolly figger out the rest

 

[MJPetersen]

You measured the angle wrong. The base line is between the pin on the box and the hinge pin between the box and frame. The second line is the line of the cylinder. In your case the angle is much less than 12 degrees--more like 7 or 8 degrees.

Mike

 

[Artisan]

You measured the angle wrong. The base line is between the pin on the box and the hinge pin between the box and frame. The second line is the line of the cylinder. In your case the angle is much less than 12 degrees--more like 7 or 8 degrees.

Mike

Holy Geometery Batman...:batman: I think Mike is right! BLAST!
Back To the BatCave!

I do not think that is enough angle on the dangle then...hmmmmmm.......

 

[Renze]

The major disadvantage of these lying cylinder setups is that the biggest force is created when the dumpbed is allmost upright, in other words where you dont need much. In the above picture, the distance from the lower cylinder pivot to the yellow line (perpendicular to the yellow line) is the working line, your lever on which the cylinder acts. You need a big cylinder to lift it out of this dead angle, and you need a lot of oil to pump (slow) to put the bucket upright with a cylinder big enough to get it started from the dead angle. Also it puts a lot of undue stress on your trailer frame.
Here in Holland we used to make dump trailers with 3 or 4 stage telescopic cylinders, they arent that expensive. Due to the nature of a telescopic cylinder (the last stage has the smallest diameter piston, which means less force, more speed) you get the best cycle times with a given hydraulic pump.

 

[MJPetersen]

Here in Holland we used to make dump trailers with 3 or 4 stage telescopic cylinders, they arent that expensive. Due to the nature of a telescopic cylinder (the last stage has the smallest diameter piston, which means less force, more speed) you get the best cycle times with a given hydraulic pump.

This is what I used in my dump trailer. I found it in the scrap yard and was able to get it for the price of scrap. It is not in ideal condition, but it works for me.

Renze, the problem with most of the trailers that use these telescoping cylinders is that they are mounted high to allow the cylinder to stick about straight down.
However, they also can side dump too. I know that for my dump trailer I was trying to keep it as low as possible so that I could feel comfortable carrying my mini ex in it. The other thing with the ones that I have seen produced here with the telescoping cylinders is that they do not have a very high dump angle.

Mike

 

[Don87]

Artisan,

Don't forget to figure in the oil capacity of the cylinder you use. As Renze posted above, "You need a big cylinder to lift it out of this dead angle, and you need a lot of oil to pump (slow) to put the bucket upright with a cylinder big enough to get it started from the dead angle".

The BX, only has a 2.5 to 3 gallon total oil capacity. Be careful not to starve the tranny of oil.

 

[swick1]

If you need more capacity why not plumb your remotes to a double headed pump and drive one head with the remotes. The other head could pump between a reservoir and the cylinder on the trailer.

 

[Artisan]

Well....certainly a lot to take into consideration here.
A triple cylinder or any cylinder(s) mounted anywhere but
where I have been toying w/ them it not in the cards for
I seek to make this platform / use the platform
for multiple uses, which could include logs hanging over
the front and rear. I may have to make the platform out
of a taller material to gain the necessary "angle of the dangle".

Indeed I have had the starvation of oil issue in my mind,
I have not been dwelling on that issue till I hammer out
the geometry, and cylinder size. I am just gonna tak emy time
on this one and really try to get it right. The base trailer is
so cool and tough, I don't want to just start willy nilly
and have a blob.

THANX SWICK! Now I gotta figure out how a DoubleHeadedPump
works! :duh:

( I so appreicate talll the replys...thank you all)