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  1. #1
    Silver Member
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    Nov 2007
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    117
    Location
    Mobile, Al
    Tractor
    1974 MF135

    Default Shop electrical wiring....

    I need some help......

    I know this is a tractor forum, but im sure most of you guys have some insight on this topic as well..plus this is the most knowledgeable forum im on. So.....

    I failed my electrical rough in today and have a few questions.......

    1. I was told my #4 copper wire that is attached to my rebar has to run to my service neutral unbroken. I assume the ground rod should be tied into this some where.... what happened.....i originally installed my copper bonding wire to a ground rod on the south wall. Power company moved my panel to the east wall after concrete was poured. I installed a new ground rod under new panel and ran a wire between the new and old grounding rods. this did not pass. I was told to either bust concrete and install new bond on rebar or cadweld a splice. I was looking at the one shot cad welds,.......could i cad weld the first wire from the slab to the first rod, and also cad weld the connecting wire between the 2 rods, and the wire to the box? basically if i cad weld everything i should be good right?

    2. Im using metal boxes.... i was told i need a bonding jumper.....what is this?

    3. I was told i needed gfci outlet on the first receptacle on each circuit or gfci breakers.....WHY? the gfci isnt wired any different that i see?

    I am working on this myself, but my dad was an electrician and is helping as well as a few friends that are/were electricians. Just trying to grasp whats going on here.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    2,972
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Tractor
    Bobcat CT225

    Default Re: Shop electrical wiring....

    Although this is technically a "tractor" forum, you will find that folks here have an amazing breadth of knowledge. I know for a fact several members will be qualified to express an opinion on your questions.

    Welcome!

  3. #3
    Bronze Member steviep's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    53
    Location
    Milton NH
    Tractor
    2001 JD 4300

    Default Re: Shop electrical wiring....

    I don't know about your local inspector but you are only required to be continuse to the first ground rod. You really need to ask a local electrician , they might be able to fix it cheaper then you think.
    A bonding jumper is a piece of wire tied from a ground screw to the circuit ground wires. The same size as the circuit wires in the box.
    A gfci outlet or breaker will protect all outlets down stream as long as wire them correctly. All 15/20 amp 120 volt outlets in barns or garages must be GFCI'd to protect personal from shock.

  4. #4
    Veteran Member
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    Feb 2007
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    1,098
    Location
    easten Colorado
    Tractor
    JD 4020

    Default Re: Shop electrical wiring....

    normally just do what the inspector wants, it is easer,

    I do not think all things really make sense, I can see some times the why, but you will not get power until you jump though his hoops,

    the ground fault circuit interrupters, measure the power going out and coming back and if it is not the same it will trip in other words if you have that old drill that shocks you if your on wet ground, and it starts to shock you it will trip the GFCI, some of the old tools that have the frame grounded may not work but that is a small price to pay for the safety they can afford one,

    really there good things, and by putting one on the first out let protects the other out lets down stream,

    the idea on the bonding wire is so if a fault does occur regardless of if the receptacle is in the box or out it has a path back to ground, and not through you, so the receptacle and the box has to be connected to the ground circuit,

    on the grounding wire you may be able to pull one of the rod, I think you need two rods with a 15 foot distance, and if you can not pull it abandon it or one the unbroken wire to the two rods and have them near the box and call it good, some time using the rebar has been used for grounding as well, most likely if you have the unbroken wire to two rods you can "bond" the others in if you would want,

    Grounding vs Bonding - Part 6 of 12 | Bonding & Grounding content from Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine

    Grounding rod installation

    How to properly install a three prong outlet so it ... - JustAnswer

  5. #5
    Super Member grsthegreat's Avatar
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    6,451
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    north idaho
    Tractor
    dk45se hst cab

    Default Re: Shop electrical wiring....

    instead of using a cad welded joint, they also have a one time permanent splice kit available. Most electrical supply houses rent the equipment to their contractor clients for nothing....i just buy the clamp. these clamps run about 1/20th the cost of cadweld.

    not sure if the shops in your area would loan the equipment to you or not....but its essentially a compression fitting thats one piece and 100% compressed.

    can you run a new #4 wire from ground rod and uffer ground. it HAS to be unbroken. the fittings do allow for this.

    you HAVE to use a GFCI protected outlet OR a gfci breaker in all 120 volt circuits. You protect the first outlet thru the line side and protect the subsequent outlets thru the load side of the GFCI outlet. they ARE different from standard outlets.

    Metal boxes require a GREEN bond screw with connection to the ground conductor. all you need to do is add the screw and loop the bare green under the screw.
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  6. #6
    Veteran Member
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    Default Re: Shop electrical wiring....

    WHY Gfi on all circuits, double check that, becuse if you make first receptacle on the circuit a GFCI and come from the load side to feed the others. That way, the rest can just be standard receptacles. The GFCI will trip if any downstream outlets has a problem. On EVERY outlet is overkill.

    Agree do EXACTLY what they want and your life will be a lot easier.

  7. #7
    Bronze Member byronlj's Avatar
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    Feb 2012
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    72
    Location
    White Mountains, AZ
    Tractor
    yanmar 169D

    Default Re: Shop electrical wiring....

    grsthe great is correct. Technically you need to have an access to the #4 ground splice in a wall. We just call them mud rings in a sheetrock wall.
    When the inspector was talking about your #4 attached to the rebar, he was talking about your ufer. They are very strict about these here in AZ with our dry climate.
    Dave

  8. #8
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    117
    Location
    Mobile, Al
    Tractor
    1974 MF135

    Default

    I spoke to one of my electrician friends last night about all my issues. He describes how to fix these issues the same way you guys did. On the ground rod situation he is checking to see if he has a cad weld on his truck to be up to fix it for me. I have another friend who works For the local power company he said he has the compression fittings on his truck so I'm going to check into that route as well. As for all the metal junction boxes being bonded I already had a 6 to 8 inch piece of bare copper wire underneath a green grounds screw installed in each box. So either the inspector did not inspect as closely as he should or he is asking for something totally different. I feel better now after doing some research hearing from my friends and reading the responses from you guys. Going to do some more research on the unbroken ground wire and look at some cad Weld one-shot items. From what I could see about the Cadwell one-shot they are only about $10-$15 per Cadwell. Thanks again and I will keep you guys informed of my progress.

    Also one more question.... I thought i read somewhere for one of the codes that i could also "splice" my gec by attaching both ends to a copper bus bus bar in an "enclosure"?
    Last edited by Kenfyoozed; 12-27-2012 at 08:17 AM.

  9. #9
    Elite Member Zebrafive's Avatar
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    Aug 2010
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    South West MI
    Tractor
    John Deere 2030, John Deere 6415

    Default Re: Shop electrical wiring....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cat_Driver View Post
    WHY Gfi on all circuits, double check that, becuse if you make first receptacle on the circuit a GFCI and come from the load side to feed the others. That way, the rest can just be standard receptacles. The GFCI will trip if any downstream outlets has a problem. On EVERY outlet is overkill.

    Agree do EXACTLY what they want and your life will be a lot easier.
    "A GFCI on all circuits" I take "all circuits" to mean all outlet circuits protected by a different circuit breaker, not each outlet in the SAME circuit.
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  10. #10
    Platinum Member
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    Dec 2007
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    Default

    We went back and forth on the gfic outlets. My dad is an industrial electrician and did all my wiring. In the end we connected gfic outlets for the inspection then removed them after it was done. There were issues with my gfic's tripping every time we turned the fluorescents on or tried to use certain tools it would trip.

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