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  1. #11
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,219
    Location
    the Steernbos (Holland)
    Tractor
    Zetor 3011, Zetor 5718

    Default Re: CDP MID600 "backhoe build" project

    Quote Originally Posted by Dongerosa View Post
    never used a backhoe before...So, what would be the best/most used pattern for controls to learn on....ISO or SAE or other?
    SAE is standard in North America, ISO is standard in Europe.

    Its a PITA when the machine acts differently than your autopilot operates it... so when in North America, get used to SAE so you're not a danger to workers when you ever use a 360 trackhoe.
    Free scrap is a good investment !!!
    “The worst enemy of life, freedom and the common decencies is total anarchy; their second worst enemy is total efficiency” · Aldous Huxley
    __________________
    1967 Zetor 3011, restoration in progress: Technically new, just needs the cosmetics..
    1973 Zetor 5718, shiny paint, high houred, home made loader
    1978 Zetor 5718, low houred but rough
    1998 Volvo S70 TDI
    2007 Volvo 440 1.9 TD based dirt buggy, needs time !

  2. #12
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    85
    Location
    wellington ohio
    Tractor
    7510 bota...RTV 900

    Default Re: CDP MID600 "backhoe build" project

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgdigger View Post
    Looks great ! I like that the pieces have the modern style as see on a commercial backhoe unit.

    You mention CDP so I assume either the pivot weldments were bought from them or cut to their template, I just find it odd that the ends of the pivot weldments are straight were the get welded to the tubes. I was always taught that you should never weld straight across a boom or arm on ground engaging equipment, commercial machines like Case or Deere go to extremes to eliminate straight welds on their hoes and front loader arms. I realize this is a much lower stress application , it's just that CDP seems to have done a good deal of engineering on this and I'm surprised they left it out.

    Picture for clarity of what I'm talking about: Attachment 299830


    Ray
    Ray,

    Yep, bought the plama cut parts, and now that you mention it, I've seen that on hoes. Thanks for the marked up photo.

    I do have to say that all other hoe kits are the same way (straight across) the arms welding. But it would make a better looking and strong unit if they did add the taped to center side plates.

  3. #13
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    132
    Location
    near Johnstown PA
    Tractor
    Allmand TLB 425

    Default Re: CDP MID600 "backhoe build" project

    Quote Originally Posted by Renze View Post
    SAE is standard in North America, ISO is standard in Europe.

    Its a PITA when the machine acts differently than your autopilot operates it... so when in North America, get used to SAE so you're not a danger to workers when you ever use a 360 trackhoe.

    Backhoes never had a "standard" in North America, I've probably run somewhere over 50 different backhoes in my life and Cat was the only one I've ever run with SAE, Deere has always used ISO , although they never called it ISO, Case has always had their own proprietary 3 stick setup w/foot swing. If you ordered a new Case you could get "Case" controls or "Deere" controls, no mention of Cat controls. Of course Cat backhoes are not popular in this area , there are probably 10 Case and 7 Deere for every 1 Cat in my region of the US.

    All the arguments started when mini excavators started to get popular, the controls were wrong ! Not really but all the old operators thought so because if it had 2 sticks it should work like Deere controls, there were a few rough years there but now we see most of the mini's coming with electric over hyd controls which can be easily switched and Case and Deere are offering excavator style controls in their backhoes as well.

    Ray

  4. #14
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,219
    Location
    the Steernbos (Holland)
    Tractor
    Zetor 3011, Zetor 5718

    Default Re: CDP MID600 "backhoe build" project

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgdigger View Post
    Backhoes never had a "standard" in North America, I've probably run somewhere over 50 different backhoes in my life and Cat was the only one I've ever run with SAE, Deere has always used ISO ,
    Interesting !! Here in Europe we have "European" controls (ISO) and everybody hated the odd machine with "American" controls (SAE) so therefor my idea that in the USA every machine would have "american" controls

    My Bobcat bobtach 905B backhoe (converted for tractor use) is ISO, i allways though they switched the hoses for the European market, but they might just sell it with ISO controls in the USA too...

    I am bidding on a bankruptcy auction, an excavator superstructure for a Unimog. awkward to use on a Mog, but cutting it up and welding it to a sideshift 3pt frame it might be a very nice and strong backhoe for farm use, so i can sell the Bobcat to a campsite groundskeeper or other people with money but no stamina to use a shovel.
    Free scrap is a good investment !!!
    “The worst enemy of life, freedom and the common decencies is total anarchy; their second worst enemy is total efficiency” · Aldous Huxley
    __________________
    1967 Zetor 3011, restoration in progress: Technically new, just needs the cosmetics..
    1973 Zetor 5718, shiny paint, high houred, home made loader
    1978 Zetor 5718, low houred but rough
    1998 Volvo S70 TDI
    2007 Volvo 440 1.9 TD based dirt buggy, needs time !

  5. #15
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    366
    Location
    Ottawa Ontario
    Tractor
    Kubota B3300SU

    Default Re: CDP MID600 "backhoe build" project

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgdigger View Post
    Backhoes never had a "standard" in North America, I've probably run somewhere over 50 different backhoes in my life and Cat was the only one I've ever run with SAE, Deere has always used ISO , although they never called it ISO, Case has always had their own proprietary 3 stick setup w/foot swing. If you ordered a new Case you could get "Case" controls or "Deere" controls, no mention of Cat controls. Of course Cat backhoes are not popular in this area , there are probably 10 Case and 7 Deere for every 1 Cat in my region of the US.

    All the arguments started when mini excavators started to get popular, the controls were wrong ! Not really but all the old operators thought so because if it had 2 sticks it should work like Deere controls, there were a few rough years there but now we see most of the mini's coming with electric over hyd controls which can be easily switched and Case and Deere are offering excavator style controls in their backhoes as well.

    Ray
    Case or Deere but not Cat? Interesting, controls here they are often referred to as Cat or Deere but no Case. Sometimes I'll run across someone calling them English (ISO) or Montreal (SAE) as french is often 'backward' of English. Seems the most natural to me that the bucket & stick are the same control and boom & swing are the other just purely by the way they are mounted ----> bucket is mounted to stick.

  6. #16
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    132
    Location
    near Johnstown PA
    Tractor
    Allmand TLB 425

    Default Re: CDP MID600 "backhoe build" project

    Quote Originally Posted by CDN Farm Boy View Post
    Seems the most natural to me that the bucket & stick are the same control and boom & swing are the other just purely by the way they are mounted ----> bucket is mounted to stick.
    I couldn't agree with you more , if it were up to me we would throw all the other ones out, the nature of most construction dictates that someone is going to be in the area of the hoe placing pipe , setting a manhole or a valve and having multiple controls is an issue of safety. In our trades union system if you get called to a job you have no idea what you'll be operating until you get there as many contractors use rentals these days.

    Ray

  7. #17
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    85
    Location
    wellington ohio
    Tractor
    7510 bota...RTV 900

    Default Re: CDP MID600 "backhoe build" project

    Hard to believe no USA standard...Guess I'm going to have to let my elected officials know...i know they can pass a bill to fix this and have some more freebee to give away from my tax dollars!!!!!...lol

    Mea culpa

  8. #18
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    85
    Location
    wellington ohio
    Tractor
    7510 bota...RTV 900

    Default Re: CDP MID600 "backhoe build" project

    A little painting yesterday...

    -20130129164732-painted-bucket-jpg

    also got 0.035 wire for welder to do some 3/16 thickness welding.

  9. #19
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,219
    Location
    the Steernbos (Holland)
    Tractor
    Zetor 3011, Zetor 5718

    Default Re: CDP MID600 "backhoe build" project

    Quote Originally Posted by Dongerosa View Post
    Hard to believe no USA standard...Guess I'm going to have to let my elected officials know...i know they can pass a bill to fix this and have some more freebee to give away from my tax dollars!!!!!...lol
    Modern track hoes are CAN controlled so you can choose ISO or SAE controls without switiching servo hoses on the sticks.
    Free scrap is a good investment !!!
    “The worst enemy of life, freedom and the common decencies is total anarchy; their second worst enemy is total efficiency” · Aldous Huxley
    __________________
    1967 Zetor 3011, restoration in progress: Technically new, just needs the cosmetics..
    1973 Zetor 5718, shiny paint, high houred, home made loader
    1978 Zetor 5718, low houred but rough
    1998 Volvo S70 TDI
    2007 Volvo 440 1.9 TD based dirt buggy, needs time !

  10. #20
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,219
    Location
    the Steernbos (Holland)
    Tractor
    Zetor 3011, Zetor 5718

    Default Re: CDP MID600 "backhoe build" project

    Quote Originally Posted by Dongerosa View Post
    A little painting yesterday...

    -20130129164732-painted-bucket-jpg

    also got 0.035 wire for welder to do some 3/16 thickness welding.
    Looks like you need to turn up the amps on your welder. ?
    Free scrap is a good investment !!!
    “The worst enemy of life, freedom and the common decencies is total anarchy; their second worst enemy is total efficiency” · Aldous Huxley
    __________________
    1967 Zetor 3011, restoration in progress: Technically new, just needs the cosmetics..
    1973 Zetor 5718, shiny paint, high houred, home made loader
    1978 Zetor 5718, low houred but rough
    1998 Volvo S70 TDI
    2007 Volvo 440 1.9 TD based dirt buggy, needs time !

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