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  1. #1
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    7510 bota...RTV 900

    Default welded or bolt on subframe brkt to loader framework?

    Got a B7510 that I'm building a subframe for a hoe... http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/b...7510-bota.html

    was all set to weld on this -20130106170842-jpgbracket to the bottom of the loader framework. Then...I started to question my weld decision...will it warp the loader connection points? will it weaken the strength of the loader mount? other not seen issues?


    so, should I weld a plate to this bracket -20121230180922-jpg , then bolt thru the top plate conneting the two? the welding would be EZ'er and much less work...but IDK if it's OK to do. would this be better to post in the welding section?

    Comments?????

  2. #2
    Platinum Member FredH's Avatar
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    Ruch , Oregon
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    N.H. TC-30

    Default Re: welded or bolt on subframe brkt to loader framework?

    Assuming first picture is of rails for sub-frame , Does it remove with back-hoe or stay with tractor with B.H. removed ? My TC30 uses 2 brackets at bottom of rear loader arms , Basically , they take out the mounting bolts mounting the loader to tractor , attach B.H. Bracket and Loader with longer bolts . When attaching B.H. to tractor , I back up over sub frame , connect hydraulics , use hydraulics to lift sub frame up in to those front brackets and high enough at back to slide into rear bracket slot bolted to bottom of rear axle housing . Then back up 3 or 4 inches , which lines up sub frame with holes in front brackets and slides sub frame into rear bracket . Front brackets just use 1" pins , 1 on each side to attach sub frame while rear bracket is just a piece of channel basically on its side that sub frame slides into . Sounds complicated but it only take 5 minute to drop or attach B.H.

    I would , Just me any way , Would only attach using bolts anything going onto tractor thus nothing would be " Permanent " , thus removable . I would confine Welding to the actual sub frame or B.H. frame .

    Fred H.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: welded or bolt on subframe brkt to loader framework?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredH View Post
    Assuming first picture is of rails for sub-frame , Does it remove with back-hoe or stay with tractor with B.H. removed ? My TC30 uses 2 brackets at bottom of rear loader arms , Basically , they take out the mounting bolts mounting the loader to tractor , attach B.H. Bracket and Loader with longer bolts . When attaching B.H. to tractor , I back up over sub frame , connect hydraulics , use hydraulics to lift sub frame up in to those front brackets and high enough at back to slide into rear bracket slot bolted to bottom of rear axle housing . Then back up 3 or 4 inches , which lines up sub frame with holes in front brackets and slides sub frame into rear bracket . Front brackets just use 1" pins , 1 on each side to attach sub frame while rear bracket is just a piece of channel basically on its side that sub frame slides into . Sounds complicated but it only take 5 minute to drop or attach B.H.

    I would , Just me any way , Would only attach using bolts anything going onto tractor thus nothing would be " Permanent " , thus removable . I would confine Welding to the actual sub frame or B.H. frame .

    Fred H.
    Fred, the subframe would be attached the the hoe, and it would slide into the rear mounting area via two 1 inch pins, then the front be lifted via hydraulics, in my case bolted two 5/8 bolts on each side to mounbt the front. My question is welding the bolt on attachment plate to the loader arms...sorry that I was not clear on this.

  4. #4
    Elite Member dfkrug's Avatar
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    05 Kioti CK30HST w/ Prairie Dog backhoe

    Default Re: welded or bolt on subframe brkt to loader framework?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dongerosa View Post
    ...will it warp the loader connection points? will it weaken the strength
    of the loader mount? other not seen issues?
    I see what you are doing, and I am familiar with that type of kubota FEL subframe.

    Welding to the FEL subframe will not hurt it, nor will it seriously distort it. The
    U-shaped steel is thick and inherently resists bending.

    That said, the issues I see are: are you going to remove the subframe and weld
    from above, or weld upside-down? I don't do OP welds like that on any of
    my subframes, esp with a stick welder. You may be more comfortable with that
    than I am. I WOULD tack-weld from below, however. Your call.

    I like to protect the steel around welds after the paint is ground away and/or
    burnt off. Can you access both sides of the FEL subframe to repaint if it is welded
    in-place?

    You can just weld a bracket with bolt holes onto only the vertical parts of the U-shape,
    but I see you have already made your brackets.

    Looks like a good project. (I love backhoe subframes.)

  5. #5
    Bronze Member
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    Default Re: welded or bolt on subframe brkt to loader framework?

    Quote Originally Posted by dfkrug View Post
    I see what you are doing, and I am familiar with that type of kubota FEL subframe.

    Welding to the FEL subframe will not hurt it, nor will it seriously distort it. The
    U-shaped steel is thick and inherently resists bending.

    good to hear!

    That said, the issues I see are: are you going to remove the subframe and weld
    from above, or weld upside-down? I don't do OP welds like that on any of
    my subframes, esp with a stick welder. You may be more comfortable with that
    than I am. I WOULD tack-weld from below, however. Your call.

    Yep...tack in place, and overhead weld...not fun, but my welding instructor, knew I did not like it so he made me do allot of it...took alot of practice...and I did get the hange of it with 6010 rod...I don't like 6010 rod! However, I will be welding with MIG ; )

    I like to protect the steel around welds after the paint is ground away and/or
    burnt off. Can you access both sides of the FEL subframe to repaint if it is welded
    in-place?

    yep...I can access for painting

    You can just weld a bracket with bolt holes onto only the vertical parts of the U-shape,
    but I see you have already made your brackets.

    could not do a U shaped or a brkt that will pit up both edges of the suframe...no flat surface 2 inches to the center of the tractor.

    Looks like a good project. (I love backhoe subframes.)
    well this subframe is made from 2 x 5 x 3/16 thk tubing, got two crossmemebers a 3 x 3 x 3/16 in rear (attachment of the hoe plus the two main 2x5 stringers) and 2 x 2 x 1/8 in the mid point. think this should be good for my little 1800 pound of ripping force hoe?

    Just a note...found your thread on subframes during my search on sub frames...very nice job!....also visited your url...some cool project...and did you buy the tesla, or just take it for a spin?
    Last edited by Dongerosa; 01-08-2013 at 08:31 AM.

  6. #6
    Elite Member dfkrug's Avatar
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    05 Kioti CK30HST w/ Prairie Dog backhoe

    Default Re: welded or bolt on subframe brkt to loader framework?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dongerosa View Post
    well this subframe is made from 2 x 5 x 3/16 thk tubing, got two crossmemebers a 3 x 3 x 3/16 in rear (attachment of the hoe plus the two main 2x5 stringers) and 2 x 2 x 1/8 in the mid point. think this should be good for my little 1800 pound of ripping force hoe?
    Sounds like you have a good plan. Post some pix along the way....lots of TBN folks like
    to see these subframes being built.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dongerosa View Post
    Just a note...found your thread on subframes during my search on sub frames...very nice job!....also visited your url...some cool project...and did you buy the tesla, or just take it for a spin?
    Thx for looking. That Tesla Roadster was $150K out the door....no way did I buy it. I had an invitation
    from Tesla Motors to test drive one for an afternoon. It was fun, but WAY overpriced. You can
    get three Lotus Elises for one Roadster, which is based on the Elise. Since I don't drive on the highways
    much anymore, I have mostly gotten away from owning or building hi-performance cars.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: welded or bolt on subframe brkt to loader framework?

    WOW...did I screw up! stupid...stupid...stupid...

    after welding up the left side btacket, I'm looking at my work. Then it hits me...this bracket is going to interfer with the mower deck in the up position. now what??? #%*@*()%

    dfgrug...will post pictures...need to figure out what to do?
    Last edited by Dongerosa; 01-10-2013 at 03:51 PM.

  8. #8
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    Default

    Grinder...

  9. #9
    Platinum Member FredH's Avatar
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    Default Re: welded or bolt on subframe brkt to loader framework?

    Been There , Done That !! Thought You were going to say that laying upside down you put the right on the left side , ( Again , Been there ! ) . After your explanation , It sounds like it will be pretty similar to the 757 set up on my TC 30 . With my sub frame mounts , The back prevents me from using a Draw bar mount , although I can / do have a draw bar that goes into my 3 point lift arms for pulling my cultipacker around . Basically it is just a piece of channel bolted to the axle housing on its side and as I back into the backhoe , a cross member on it slides into the channel .

    Fred H.

  10. #10
    Bronze Member
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    Default Re: welded or bolt on subframe brkt to loader framework?

    got my interferance issue resolved (between my welded bracket on the loader arm and mower deck in up position). Had to cut off, shorten, the bracket, re-drill 5/8 holes. then add to the top of the sub-frame the attachment points...vs going thru the 2 x 5 tubing as originally planned. all is good also I have decided to weld the subframe to the backhoe vs bolting/pinning.

    here are a few pictures....the subframe.

    -20130118152050-subframe-jpg

    new "on top" subframe connection point...back and front sides

    -20130118152117-front-attachment-jpg-20130118152228-front-attach-loader-side

    shorter loader brkt... note one bolt just loose

    -20130119183233-mod-loader-brkt-jpg

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