Design feedback wanted for logging winch?

[wildlife]

Design idea advice based on this old posting?

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/109484-logging-winch.html


I read this old post and liked the design of the logging winch that he built. I posted to ask him about how it has worked out and don't see that he is active on this board anymore.

I have a similar sized winch and am digging through the metal pile to get enough together to make my own attachment.

Before I start cutting I wanted to ask what people liked or didn't like about their logging winches. Also, what do you think about the pictures in the thread above? Any weaknesses in that design that I should consider?


I was thinking of putting a cross piece between the frame with a roller, instead of hanging that pulley on a chain. That way the cable could move back and forth a little for easier spooling???

Any ideas on things to avoid or include in a design like this.

Thanks for sharing your experience.
Jeff

 

[Grandad4]

Comparing that homebrew to my factory winch, the thing that jumps out at me is how far back behind the tractor that homebrew goes vs the factory design which keeps the payload close to the rear wheels when towing. I would be concerned that putting the load you're pulling so far back could make the front end pretty light and would give a snagged log a lot of leverage to toss the tractor around when operating the winch or towing. I've found the blade really doesn't do all that much to help the tractor stay in place on a hard pull unless you snug it up to a tree or something.

The other thing that you'd want to consider is how to keep the line extending out to the log as low as possible, ideally very near the same height as the lower 3 pt links so they take most of the stress of the pull. It looks to me as if the homebrew unit has the line too high and is going to pass a lot of stress through the top link to wherever it attaches to the tractor rear end. Again, a heavy pull or a snag puts incredible force on the tractor; the lower arms typically attach right to the rear axle somehow, which is the strongest part of the tractor, unlike the top of the rear differential.

I'd assume that idler pulley setup is both the control for pulling on the line and also a relief mechanism it there is an overload or a hang-up with a pull. Looks like you move that bar that extends from the idler. I wonder if you could devise some way to operate it without having to stand so close to the tractor. Keep you away from a snapped line or the tractor if the pull goes bad.

Finally, it might be safer and last longer if all that mechanical stuff had some kind of shroud to keep stray clothing or body parts and debris from getting in.

Those are just my quick observations. That was definitely a good piece of fabrication work there. Good luck with your project!

 

[wildlife]

Thanks for the reply.

Further back with more leverage against the tractor is a good thought. This will be mostly for winching out to where I can get them with another machine. I wont have to drag them with this attachment if they are big.

I am also planning on having a shield up for any possible broken parts flying and will first try to mount a hydraulic motor so i have easier controls and reverse. If that doesn't work out well with the parts i have then plan b is figuring out a pto drive with clutch set up (old forage wagon).

Do you snag logs on the ground or obstacles much? was wondering how often folks rig snatch blocks to redirect their pull?

Thanks, I will watch my load on the top link and aim lower.

I thought building a vertical style one like the commercial farmi or others would be hard with my winch that is as big as those picts.

Thanks for the ideas, they will make my project better.

Comparing that homebrew to my factory winch, the thing that jumps out at me is how far back behind the tractor that homebrew goes vs the factory design which keeps the payload close to the rear wheels when towing. I would be concerned that putting the load you're pulling so far back could make the front end pretty light and would give a snagged log a lot of leverage to toss the tractor around when operating the winch or towing. I've found the blade really doesn't do all that much to help the tractor stay in place on a hard pull unless you snug it up to a tree or something.

The other thing that you'd want to consider is how to keep the line extending out to the log as low as possible, ideally very near the same height as the lower 3 pt links so they take most of the stress of the pull. It looks to me as if the homebrew unit has the line too high and is going to pass a lot of stress through the top link to wherever it attaches to the tractor rear end. Again, a heavy pull or a snag puts incredible force on the tractor; the lower arms typically attach right to the rear axle somehow, which is the strongest part of the tractor, unlike the top of the rear differential.

I'd assume that idler pulley setup is both the control for pulling on the line and also a relief mechanism it there is an overload or a hang-up with a pull. Looks like you move that bar that extends from the idler. I wonder if you could devise some way to operate it without having to stand so close to the tractor. Keep you away from a snapped line or the tractor if the pull goes bad.

Finally, it might be safer and last longer if all that mechanical stuff had some kind of shroud to keep stray clothing or body parts and debris from getting in.

Those are just my quick observations. That was definitely a good piece of fabrication work there. Good luck with your project!

 

[Grandad4]

Just to be clear, I was suggesting you keep the winch as close to the tractor as possible, not put it further back. You want to give the load on the end of your cable the shortest fulcrum possible to minimize how much leverage it can exert on the tractor.

I have two snatch blocks so I can make a pull at just about any angle. Did a series of pulls last year that were literally pulling logs away from the tractor for 100', making a 90 deg turn, go another 50 feet, make another 90 deg turn and finally up to the tractor. But usually a direct pull is the easiest to rig up, safest and most trouble free. I pull a lot of deadfall from some hillsides with gullies, so snags are a way of life for me. Looking at a logging cone to make life a bit easier.

Really important to position the tractor so your pull is as close to the centerline of the tractor as possible (i.e. going straight back from the tractor, not off to one side or the other). It's really easy to flip the tractor if the pull is more than a few degrees off to one side and you hit a snag.

I appreciate you've got to work with the existing winch mechanism. One idea to consider about the height... my winch has two pulleys, a high one that feeds the cable in and out of the drum and a second, lower one on a swivel that brings the cable back down to the height of the lower 3 pt arms.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I have thought of doing something like this using the PTO winch Surplus Center sells, it holds 325' of 3/8 cable. My plan was to set it so the winch line comes off on the tractor side and put a snatch block on the drawbar. That puts the strain on the tractor frame at the lowest possible point. I would put a fairlead in the channel underneath the winch and set the winch carriage on the ground when using. Should be pretty stable. Also I would mount the winch frame with pins to set in the BH mount not on the 3PT. Oh, I have a BX 25.
Ron

 

[Grandad4]

I have thought of doing something like this using the PTO winch Surplus Center sells, it holds 325' of 3/8 cable. My plan was to set it so the winch line comes off on the tractor side and put a snatch block on the drawbar. That puts the strain on the tractor frame at the lowest possible point. I would put a fairlead in the channel underneath the winch and set the winch carriage on the ground when using. Should be pretty stable. Also I would mount the winch frame with pins to set in the BH mount not on the 3PT. Oh, I have a BX 25.
Ron

Using the BH mount is a good idea, I think. Should be more robust than the 3 pt for the kind of forces presented by a winch.

 

[Gordon Gould]

I think the high winch point is actually benificial. It puts down pressure on the blade. But you want the blade directly under the top winch pully for best geometry not way out behind. Ideally the blade against and driven into the ground is what holds the winch back not the tractor. The tractor just supplies power and acts as a counter weight to keep the winch upright.
Normally winching is done from the top pully and if there is a lower pully on the winch it is used while skidding to keep the load lower for safer travel.
Here is a Farmi paper that brushes on the subject. See bold print.