Pressure Treated Lumber

[Darren]

The higher grades of CCA lumber are still available and will still be available after the residential use phaseout. The marine grade, either 2.4 or 2.5 (I forget which), is still available through the specialty lumber yards as compared to the .25 or .4 stuff carried in the so-called home centers. FYI, I didn't misplace any decimal points. Marine grade is treated to a much higher retention. The stuff has a very dark green almost black appearance. If you used it in a non-salt environment, I suspect it wouldn't deteriorate for generations. Not so for the .24 or .4 stuff.

If you're dealing with a yard that orders directly from a treatment plant, forget Home Depot, Lowes and the like, you can special order any rough cut or dimension lumber treated to marine grade. BTDT. Will be doing it again in the future for some 10x10 poles.

[Soundguy]

Speaking of long lasting... The company i work for has to do some demolition every now and then adjacent to the road work we are doing.

We had to remove an old boat ramp on a lake, and pulled 4x4 and 6x6 rought cut cresote timbers out of the lake.. they were using the 6x6 as pylons. The timbers were exposed to the water, and as much as 4' of mud/silt/sand.

Every single timber was as stout as they day it was cooked.

In fact, we made a pile of them while tearing down, and many of them even started sweating the oil out while in the sun, just like a new one would.

We ended up carrying them back to the shop to use as wheel chocks ( 4x4) and other misc... items.

Here's the catcher.... municipality we were working for stated that that portion of the peir was original, and made in the 50's... neat... a testament to the preservative powers of the oil from a desert 'weed'.

Soundguy

[Darren]

Water isn't necessarily bad. Cedar posts as long as they're either constantly wet (under ground) or relatively dry (above ground) last a long time. Unfortunately they rot away right at the ground where they go through constant cycles of longer term soaking and drying.

The longest lasting wood, it beats creosote treated stuff, is osage orange. In a test that's been running 52 years, osage orange posts show no signs of deterioration while the creosoted posts have deteriorated.

[pekabu]

There was a big write up about on of the Churches in Boston, MA. Most of Boston is filled in marsh land if you haven't heard that before. One of the oldest churches is getting fixed up, and one of the things they did was to dig around and check the pilings. The architect did an incredible job of overdesigning (sound familiar: ) ) the base. Part of the design was a way for them to check water table level, and when not enough add water to ensure the pilings were constantly wet. He did his job well. After >100 years only a couple had deteoriated at the top because of exposure.

Now, if he had only designed the Leaning Tower of Pisa it wouldn't be so famous. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[Soundguy]

Speaking of deteriorating at the top.. I've noticed fence posts usually die from hollowing out at the top first... treatment must not make it all the way thru in the same concentration.. leaving a 'weak' space int he middle.

I sealed the tops of all my fence posts using a sponge and pail of asphalt paint.. I gave them a good complete drencing.. lettingthe excess run don the sides ( they are cresote.. so black anyway ).. sealed them up good.

My posts show no signs of any degredation after 3 ys.. whereas the neighbor who put up a fence section 2 ys ago using pt.. already has some post hollowing out and becoming concave on top...

Soundguy

[Renze]

Last autumn, we removed the fenceing from a piece of horse land we sold to our neighbor.
half of the poles (diameter 12 cm, bitumen tar treated), looked fine on teh outside but were hollow in the inside. especially at ground level, the poles were worst.

My grand dad used home made cloven oak trees as fence posts, in some spots we have oak posts from my grand dad, that eroded on the outside but the core is still hard.

About the oil: I dont know. mankinf has very little effect on Co2 emission. 97% is caused by natural events, like underground coal field fires, in some areas of china. Those coal fields burn underground, and it is burning as long as the local population can remember.
Also volcano bursts are very big Co2 emitters.

The oil in high concentrations is bad for the environment, i agree.. But the few droplets that rain off my wagons are spread in such an extensive area that it is easily washed out and broken down by natural processes.

[NoTrespassing]

<font color="blue"> I believe that arsenic slowly build up in the body until it reaches an 'effective' level.. and that is when you see the problems. That coupled with the fact that it is slow to leave the body is what eventually led most federal jobsites involving children.. ( playgrounds.. parks.. etc ) to go to the NON-cca lumber.. etc. </font>

This quote is directly from an EPA site.

http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/factsh...transition.htm

<font color="red">"Although the Agency has not concluded that there is unreasonable risk to the public from these products, we do believe that any reduction in exposure to arsenic is desirable. This action comes years ahead of completing the Agency's regulatory and scientific assessment of CCA and will result in substantial reductions in potential exposure to CCA."</font>

Hmm....potential exposure that hasn't been proven. I realize that the removal of this chemical from residential use will be "voluntary" by producers or distributors but it seems to me that they have been <font color="red">pressured </font>into this action by the EPA.
They don't even recommend removing CCA treated wood from existing structures. If it's that dangerous why wouldn't they?

A more resonable approach in my opinion would be to make parents aware that there is "a potential danger" in some peoples opinions that hasn't been proven!

I think the gun was jumped on this one. I'm gettin real tired of BIG BROTHER watchin out for me.
low flush toilets
front load washers
warning upon warning everywhere we look.
Ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? Eventually these gov. warnings will be meaningless.

Auto manufactures are probably going to be forced to put new safety features on electric windows soon. How much will that cost me on the next vehicle I buy?

The quote that bothers me the most is this:
<font color="red"> the Agency believes that any reduction in the levels of potential exposure to arsenic is desirable </font>

Then why not remove existing CCA treated wood? Get rid of the deadly stuff!

This is a rediculous statement from an out of control agency.
It reminds me of this statement that I've heard from so many people. "If we can save just one child from harm all of our sacrifices will be worth it."

I'm gonna go dunk my head in a 5 gal. bucket of water. I've got one without a warning on it somewhere.

Kevin

[Junkman]

A few years ago, we were advised by the town that a U.S. Government Agency..... don't remember which one, was testing water wells in the town because they were "chasing" a vein of arsenic that runs from Maine through New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and I don't remember where it ends..... I never heard any more about the study or what the results were..... If one thing doesn't get you, another thing will......Living ultimately leads to the ultimate end...... death.... it is just when that end happens that is important... Hopefully it will be a long way off for all of us.... Evey day you live, you are a day closer to your death!!!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Soundguy]

I just recently heard from a local contractor that the school board in our area is taking bids on applying sealer to all cca treated wood in the school system.. i.e., gym and playground areas.. so obviously they aren't running around ripping it up like it is radioactive ( probably couldn't afford it any way. ).

Gotta love those warnings and disclaimers. And it isn't just the epa... there are tons of 'protect you from yourself' legislation out there. Just look at your tractor.. every kind of warning label known to man.. My NH even has a warning about tripping when getting on the machine and stepping on a 'wet' step..

You will also find manufacturesrs . fearing crippling liability lawsuits, come up with many of these warnings, and also product safety commisisons like the UL mandate some warnings as well.

I guess it is the 'price we pay for where we live'...

Though I'm not the gratest fan of trading freedom for security, as in the end, you will have no freedom, and the gov't can't guarantee the security.. etc..

Soundguy

[zuiko]

A lot of the home centers dont carry CCA any more. 0.40 was the common retention, with 0.60 available special order.

Not sure if I trust the new stuff... I'm just assuming it doesnt work as well until I see otherwise. I'm not concerned about the CCA myself since I dont plan to eat it. You'd have to eat a lot of boardfeet to get poisoned.