quesiton on Clutch selection on a powere wheel barrow?
- Thread starter BHD
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farm boy00
Veteran Member
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- Jul 17, 2014
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- Howard City, MI
- Tractor
- John Deere M&MT, Case 1030 comfort king, Sears ST16, Craftsmen 6000, homemade articulation mini-loader
We had one on a gocart like that but instead off manual shift you revved the motor off ideal and it kicked in. Really nice
Advantage of a belt clutch, especially a belt clutch that applies the brake when you have it fully pressed down is that if for some reason your engine is overspeeding, you can't disengage a cetrifugal, but a belt you can.
As far as durability, if you are using the small a-section "automotive" belts, yes they can be fussy. I have never had a problem with the bigger b-section belts that wasn't caused by some other factor like loose trans bolts kicking the pulleys out of alignment under load, or the belt being many decades old. I think there is enough meat on b-section belt that it can both provide enough friction and take the amount of wear you are likely to throw at it. And as long as you pick your motor-to-trans pulley distance so that a current mower belt will fit, you can usually find replacements at most box stores on nights and weekends, as opposed to having to get a custom size from a bearing house during the week at business hours.
If you're planning on running something like a 4-horse pressure washer motor as opposed to a bigger lawn tractor motor, then I bet even the a-section belts would give you good service. Any load big enough to be a problem for the belt will probably stall the motor.
Biggest issue will be making sure your pulleys are lined up and don't wobble. Belts are forgiving, but the straighter they are the better they work.
The next question you have to ask is, do you want your clutch to engage when released, like a pedal on a mower, or engage when applied like on a snowblower or rototiller?
Looking forward to seeing the rest of your build.
As far as durability, if you are using the small a-section "automotive" belts, yes they can be fussy. I have never had a problem with the bigger b-section belts that wasn't caused by some other factor like loose trans bolts kicking the pulleys out of alignment under load, or the belt being many decades old. I think there is enough meat on b-section belt that it can both provide enough friction and take the amount of wear you are likely to throw at it. And as long as you pick your motor-to-trans pulley distance so that a current mower belt will fit, you can usually find replacements at most box stores on nights and weekends, as opposed to having to get a custom size from a bearing house during the week at business hours.
If you're planning on running something like a 4-horse pressure washer motor as opposed to a bigger lawn tractor motor, then I bet even the a-section belts would give you good service. Any load big enough to be a problem for the belt will probably stall the motor.
Biggest issue will be making sure your pulleys are lined up and don't wobble. Belts are forgiving, but the straighter they are the better they work.
The next question you have to ask is, do you want your clutch to engage when released, like a pedal on a mower, or engage when applied like on a snowblower or rototiller?
Looking forward to seeing the rest of your build.
to engage with the pull of a lever so it works like a dead man so the barrow would not get away form some one,
to engage when applied,
if it was a disengage system I would not have the concern, but to engage when applied, lot is on how tight one pulls the lever, and if using a "clutch or break lever type like on a motorcycle, the movement of the cable would be about 3/8 to 1/2 inch, one would need a return spring (light) but unlike a lawn tractor that disengages the clutch, with FOOT power, much stronger than ones fingers, but am concerned about enough travel of the tighter and if one would have adequate force to make a solid connection, and not have to be readjusting it often, as if one only has about 3/8 of travel if you work with reduced leverage on the idler to increases the travel distance, that would increase the strength need to tighten it,
I really like the looks of that manual clutch that was shown (I am guessing it was a small planetary gear clutch as it had a brake band on the out side of a drum, and most likely used a go cart brake band as the brake, simple parts replacement,
one to get a dead mans type switch, (either throttle and centrifugal) or belt with lever to tighten it.
on snow blowers or roto tillers it is usually a lever with a lot of travel.
maybe wrong with I would think if one had to inch it up to a form or a location. a clutch that one had to work with the hands off the handles would not be that effective,
may be I need to build as right now it is just what I think it would be like and do, but I have worked with equipment for 50+ years, and have designed a lot of thing for my self, yes to inch up on some thing down shift to the low gear and inch it up but I am concerned with the low movement and what I think may be a lot of squeeze pressure to get to a non slip condition,
yes the motor is to be a 4.5 Honda pressure washer motor, (from what I can find I think the engine has a 7/8 shaft that may had some difficulty as most clutches and such are 3/4' or 1", I would think one could use a sleeve to use a 1 bore, tho,
to engage when applied,
if it was a disengage system I would not have the concern, but to engage when applied, lot is on how tight one pulls the lever, and if using a "clutch or break lever type like on a motorcycle, the movement of the cable would be about 3/8 to 1/2 inch, one would need a return spring (light) but unlike a lawn tractor that disengages the clutch, with FOOT power, much stronger than ones fingers, but am concerned about enough travel of the tighter and if one would have adequate force to make a solid connection, and not have to be readjusting it often, as if one only has about 3/8 of travel if you work with reduced leverage on the idler to increases the travel distance, that would increase the strength need to tighten it,
I really like the looks of that manual clutch that was shown (I am guessing it was a small planetary gear clutch as it had a brake band on the out side of a drum, and most likely used a go cart brake band as the brake, simple parts replacement,
one to get a dead mans type switch, (either throttle and centrifugal) or belt with lever to tighten it.
on snow blowers or roto tillers it is usually a lever with a lot of travel.
maybe wrong with I would think if one had to inch it up to a form or a location. a clutch that one had to work with the hands off the handles would not be that effective,
may be I need to build as right now it is just what I think it would be like and do, but I have worked with equipment for 50+ years, and have designed a lot of thing for my self, yes to inch up on some thing down shift to the low gear and inch it up but I am concerned with the low movement and what I think may be a lot of squeeze pressure to get to a non slip condition,
yes the motor is to be a 4.5 Honda pressure washer motor, (from what I can find I think the engine has a 7/8 shaft that may had some difficulty as most clutches and such are 3/4' or 1", I would think one could use a sleeve to use a 1 bore, tho,
A lot of the ones I have seen use two springs, a light one to hold the handle open, and when you pull the handle it pulls a spring rather than on the idler directly, so that when you run past the tension point to actually grip the handle to guide the machine, the spring is holding the clutch engaged.
My Dad's old walk-behind two wheel garden tractor had an over-center clutch, you could ease up to it to engage, then flip it onto the over-center part to hold it engaged without having to keep hand pressure. The clutch handle was close enough to the operating handle you could pop the lever with your thumb without removing your grip, and it would release with the spring. In general, though, I find the snowblower/tiller levers easier to use. It is also possible that these machines approach the over-center point when the clutch handle is pulled fully, so that you are not resisting a lot of tension any more, just not so far over center that it latches.
My Dad's old walk-behind two wheel garden tractor had an over-center clutch, you could ease up to it to engage, then flip it onto the over-center part to hold it engaged without having to keep hand pressure. The clutch handle was close enough to the operating handle you could pop the lever with your thumb without removing your grip, and it would release with the spring. In general, though, I find the snowblower/tiller levers easier to use. It is also possible that these machines approach the over-center point when the clutch handle is pulled fully, so that you are not resisting a lot of tension any more, just not so far over center that it latches.
As for the pressure washer motors, it's not hard to find pulleys with 7/8 or 25mm or whatever odd bore. I found a cast iron one for my mulch buggy at a Tractor Supply, but they also had the weldable pulleys, with a selection of hub centers to pick from, and several different size pulleys (as well as sprockets, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish).
Here's the mulch buggy:
Decided front fenders were a good idea:
I originally set out to make a power wheelbarrow out of the same parts, but decided to keep it simple and keep the same drive controls and configuration so that I would actually complete it...while this does what I need, I think the power wheelbarrow configuration would be more generally useful.
Here's the mulch buggy:
Decided front fenders were a good idea:
I originally set out to make a power wheelbarrow out of the same parts, but decided to keep it simple and keep the same drive controls and configuration so that I would actually complete it...while this does what I need, I think the power wheelbarrow configuration would be more generally useful.
dcomp
Member
Rear tine tiller trans may work also
what I am thinking right now, is to g the belt lightener type, and see how it works, I know I will not be pouring the concrete until spring and that should give me time to test the system, if it does not work to my satisfaction (main concern is cost at the moment),
my next choice is the Torque Converter clutch Comet 30 Series Torque Converters | Comet Parts - Clutches and just a thumb throttle control,
I see advantage to both, the Muck truck brand use a belt Tightener,
my thought would be to make nearly over center or at least neutral 90 degree in to the drive belt, so the pressure to keep in place would be minimal (make the adjustor so the length of the engagement pulley arm could be adjustable.
have not made a test unit so exactly how I am not sure of the final design, probably similar to what a belt tightener would be with a bolt to move and adjust the moving part and a locking bolt system, some how be able to move the pivot point on a slide for adjustment and the standard swinging movement to do the actual tightening
my next choice is the Torque Converter clutch Comet 30 Series Torque Converters | Comet Parts - Clutches and just a thumb throttle control,
I see advantage to both, the Muck truck brand use a belt Tightener,
my thought would be to make nearly over center or at least neutral 90 degree in to the drive belt, so the pressure to keep in place would be minimal (make the adjustor so the length of the engagement pulley arm could be adjustable.
have not made a test unit so exactly how I am not sure of the final design, probably similar to what a belt tightener would be with a bolt to move and adjust the moving part and a locking bolt system, some how be able to move the pivot point on a slide for adjustment and the standard swinging movement to do the actual tightening
CDennyRun
Gold Member
Have you thought about going hydraulic? Tried and true. Get a used pump off a junk man lift, or scissor lift, and a hydraulic motor off ebay. You could use a winsmith gear reducer for a gear box. Making axle shafts with u-joints isn't hard to do at all, if you have a decent welding machine. You could do it all on a very low budget, and fab it with parts you can get from any local automotive parts supply. A 2HP gas engine could power it, and use much less fuel than most other options.