Container Weld Shop build -

   / Container Weld Shop build - #1  

BukitCase

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,748
Location
Albany OR
Tractor
Case 580B, Long 460, Allis-Chalmers 160
Thought I'd start a separate thread on this, it's gonna get fairly involved and this'll keep ALL my screw-ups in one place (yeah, right) so anybody that wants to do this can hopefully benefit from my brain farts :rolleyes:

First (surmountable) problem -

I LOVE my mm252, and have no intention to ever get rid of it; however, my shop area (including the 2 containers) is limited to a 30 amp 240 volt supply for now; eventually it'll get upped to 200 amps, but that's gonna take at least $2500 or more between various permits, fees, materials, etc - probably more like $3500.

Near as I can tell, the 252 can weld MAYBE 14 gauge steel if limited to 30 amps, plus it's NOT very portable (somewhere around the mm250, Miller decided they could save some $ by eliminating the picking eye and associated strengthening parts it needed)

Enter the diabolical (possibly even TRI-abolical :=) plan, spawned by my (eventual) container weld/machine shop with built-in steel rack and bridge crane -

1 - a ready-made excuse to get another welder - The inverter MM211 doesn't quite need 30 amps of 240 for its FULL RANGE (hey, it worked on Mrs. Bukit, don't knock it)

2 - The limited width of containers to just under 8 feet makes floor space precious, therefore the "vertical" motif -

3 - Finally, a project tailor-made for a scrap piece of safety railing that's been staring at me for about 12 years...

4 - The actual plan -
a - Be amazed that the longer side is 5/8" wider than needed to fit the bottle AND the welder
b - Test fit with some scraps and clamps
c - Add the missing leg and frame pieces
d - Add places to hang stuff
e - Cut away anything that doesn't LOOK like a weld cart :D
f - Put big wheels on one side, smaller casters on the other, because
g - It'll need a hand truck handle, which will ALSO be tall enough to protect the regulator (but NOT block the view of gauges)

Keeping things as tight as this should make it fairly easy to find a (not quite) balance point so it'll be possible to move it around without being too tippy - we'll see after I get further along on it.

These pics are (obviously) just the concept; the rear angle support will get welded INSIDE the square tube frame at an angle matching the tilt of the welder, the bottom frame will get finished off, a piece of 14 or 12 ga. sheet on the bottom, probably a deep drawer for leathers, hood, gloves, etc - a torch holster, and??!?

I'm just firin' from the hip here, never know where it'll end up... Steve

And, the "crane kit" - actual KITS I've seen for a smaller area, run around $6k and UP - all materials for my 8'x20' coverage are right around $1500. More on the project when I get time -
 

Attachments

  • DSCN2861.JPG
    DSCN2861.JPG
    1.7 MB · Views: 1,099
  • DSCN2862.JPG
    DSCN2862.JPG
    1.5 MB · Views: 953
  • DSCN2863.JPG
    DSCN2863.JPG
    1.7 MB · Views: 836
  • DSCN2864.JPG
    DSCN2864.JPG
    1.6 MB · Views: 1,087
  • DSCN2865.JPG
    DSCN2865.JPG
    1.7 MB · Views: 1,427
  • DSCN2856.JPG
    DSCN2856.JPG
    1.6 MB · Views: 1,038
  • DSCN2855.JPG
    DSCN2855.JPG
    1.6 MB · Views: 1,119
   / Container Weld Shop build -
  • Thread Starter
#2  
Sorry for the confusion, kinda got the "cart before the horse" - but that's the only way this is gonna happen due to limited power at the new weld shop location (away from garage, house, pets, wife, etc) - I want to use ER70-S6 wire to do the crane, because that was what was recommended to me (for welding Cor-Ten steel on containers) by people I trust - there'll be more than a couple places where I need to attach components of the bridge crane to the container itself, and I do NOT wanna burn thru the container walls (I usually only grab a stick machine when things are thick and heavy, so not the best stick guy out there)

Anyway, bottom line is I need a wire machine that can be happy with 30 amps of power or less, and don't wanna spend a few thou just to get more power (that'll come later, when I'm not quite as desperate for space :confused:)

Sooo, I'm documenting the "small footprint" welding cart that will then be used to do the "Crane-Tainer" project.

I DID manage to get a few pieces cut, then did the math and decided that welding subassemblies in ONE location and then moving them (painfully) to another location wasn't too bright, considering that several of them would weigh more than 100 pounds and my back's ALREADY callin' me names -

The shorter pieces of 3" and 5" channel in the stack are 3 sets of "shelves" for an integral steel rack on the 3 crane rail supports on the left side of the container, getting shorter by 2" on each successive shelf - then the 4 pieces of LONGER channel leaning against the siding will get welded together back to back in pairs, making 2 "heavy-web I-beams" that will be combined with 2 1-ton trolleys for each end of the bridge beam.

supports for the side rails will be 3 pieces of 5" channel 75" long, with bottom shelf also acting as a weight spreading "foot" - uprights will be 7-1/2 feet apart; one centered on its 20' I-beam, and the other two 2-1/2 feet in from the ends. Each upright will get welded to the wall in several places, plus each upright will get a 45* gusset (2" square tube) from 25" above floor to the steel rim at floor's edge, and a second one from 50" up going up to the crane rail. These will be mirrored for the center upright, and just OUTBOARD on each outer upright.

All spans calculate out to right at 2 tons, and the hoist trolley will be 2 ton rated; but in real life it should never see more than ONE ton. No motorized lift or traverse, so there should be no problems with racking whatever.

Best I can do right now for drawings is a couple jpg's that start out as DOS files from my ancient CAD program, which then gets converted to equally ancient DXF from that program, then imported into a (barely) Windows home cad program that can still READ old DXF's, and can "save as" a jpg. Still a work in progress as far as clarity's concerned, but it's what I got and I'm gettin' too old to wanna learn how to draw all over again in a newer prog... Steve

Oh, the end trolleys are 4 HF 1-ton trolleys, used upside down - couldn't find crane wheels that small and it woulda been a pita to do on a mill, plus I couldn't buy the BEARINGS for what those trolleys cost on a coupon...
 

Attachments

  • DSCN2866.JPG
    DSCN2866.JPG
    1.7 MB · Views: 965
  • CNTCRAN3a.JPG
    CNTCRAN3a.JPG
    48.3 KB · Views: 810
  • CNTCRAN3b.JPG
    CNTCRAN3b.JPG
    61.9 KB · Views: 822
  • CNTCRAN3c.JPG
    CNTCRAN3c.JPG
    45.1 KB · Views: 704
Last edited:
   / Container Weld Shop build -
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Got a little more done on the weld cart tonight, it's mocked up enough so I can see where I need to clean for welds - I'll also need to clean up those rust spots and give a good coat of rusty metal primer.

Once it's all together EXCEPT for wheels, I'll put the bottle and welder on it and figure out where the balance point is; then some 13" wheels will go toward the FRONT from that, the taller 2 uprights will get a tall handle that'll make it into a hand truck when tipped back, and a pair of double locking casters will go on the 2 rear corners. Add a lead hanger and maybe a torch holster and it should be good to go... Steve

(Oh, and some purtier paint :D )
 

Attachments

  • DSCN2868.JPG
    DSCN2868.JPG
    1.8 MB · Views: 605
  • DSCN2869.JPG
    DSCN2869.JPG
    1.6 MB · Views: 731
   / Container Weld Shop build - #4  
Coming along!
 
   / Container Weld Shop build - #5  
I use a container as a metal shop too; I have a small lathe and a big drill press in there.
I've been using an inverter stick welder for many years; the inverters are portable and efficient, so your power requirement is lower than a coil wound machine. But they aren't as reliable, I have killed a couple of them.
I'm assuming that will be similar with mig machines.

As to the container itself, before setting it in place, I rolled it onto its side and hammered / pressure washed the rust off the floor beams as well as I could, then coated them with grease. When I put it in place I set it on concrete pads with plastic blocks between the steel and concrete.
My tractor 3-point will lift one end of the container so I can put logs under it, pull and push it around, and lever / lift it into place. If you have to pay someone to move / lift it then probably all that is too hard.

I also want a big gantry crane outside, but I have to wait a while due to regulatory and financial constraints.

I just bought another one for the OH to store her things in "away from the metal and machine world". I'm going to put roofing asphalt / tar paper on top, and paint the inside and outside.
Of course I never did any of that for my container!
The top was a bit bowl shaped and holding water, I managed to push it up so it drains ok now.
 
   / Container Weld Shop build -
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Finally found time to get my weld table cleared/cleaned off, and got all the pieces for the steel rack (doubling as one of the two wall supports for the bridge crane) cut, except for the 3 legs for each side - working on a stronger design for those legs so won't cut pieces til I'm happy with it...

Each end of the bridge beam will rest on a box beam (the two pieces of channel with weld clamps on them will be ONE side of the bridge) consisting of two 36" pieces of heavy 5" channel - each end of each box beam will get drilled to 1-1/16" to fit the thru-bolt on HF 1-ton trolleys, used upside down to support the trolley - so each end of the bridge will have TWO 1-ton 4-wheel trolleys, with the bridge beam centered between them.

The actual hoist trolley is a 2-ton rated unit, and the I-beam itself will support nearly that - but the crane will never see a full ton.

All the pieces of 3" channel are for 3 sets of tiers (5 levels, counting the 5" channel on the FLOOR which also doubles as a "spreader" for the uprights, with 20' rails on top - rails AND bridge beam are 6" x 12.5# I-beam.

I still need to spend some time on the CAD drawings to get cleaner conversions; 'nuther day... Steve
 

Attachments

  • DSCN2871.JPG
    DSCN2871.JPG
    1.8 MB · Views: 896
  • DSCN2872.JPG
    DSCN2872.JPG
    1.8 MB · Views: 890
  • DSCN2873.JPG
    DSCN2873.JPG
    1.6 MB · Views: 723
  • DSCN2874.JPG
    DSCN2874.JPG
    1.6 MB · Views: 883
   / Container Weld Shop build - #8  
Not to throw off your plans too much, but the MM252 should work just fine on 30 amps. I had mine plugged into either a 10 or 12ga circuit (20 or 30 amps), and only ever tripped it out -once- doing long continuous high current welds. Even with the voltage cranked all the way up, doing spray-arc welds, it worked just fine on that circuit. If you need it, it's certainly worth trying.
 
   / Container Weld Shop build -
  • Thread Starter
#9  
No problem, appreciate the real-world info, thanks - I went back and re-read my first post, and I apparently left out a couple OTHER reasons for the additional wire machine - much lighter weight and inverter technology. Another "down the road" project I'm preparing for requires welding several square tube "H" braces in the field as part of a 2800 foot fence replacement, going from 3' field fencing to 4', so there'll be 9 H braces plus 4 3-legged corner braces, with the cross braces all welded in place (tried welding up corner braces and trying to get them into 3 holes in the field, didn't go well)

The newer MM211 is inverter based and spec'd for 50-60 hZ power/more "generator friendly" than transformer machines that have a harder time adapting to resonances other than their RLC components were intended for - so when THAT project finally rises to the top of the list, the little 52 pound (with 8" spool of flux core) inverter machine will let me throw it and my gen set in the tractor bucket and do all those braces with "stick on a roll", much easier than the much heavier MM252.

Plus, by keeping BOTH, I won't have to give up ONE of the two (main) locations I want to be able to weld at, just leave the "beast" at the first location (along with the 900 lb. table, O/A, plasma and 250AC/DC stick welder) and the "baby" at the container (along with my inverter stick/tig machine, ALSO not very "thirsty" -

That way, I can do most small/medium sized projects in the slightly constricted space of a container with the smaller (28"x54"x3/4") table I scored last year on CL for $200 INCLUDING a KURT milling vise (pic below) - plus, until I get that crane/steel rack done, I don't have a totally dry place to store full-length steel without having to physically lift each piece overhead by HAND (and even THAT isn't totally dry, I either USE it, PAINT it ($$) or let it rust)

All these things get more important the older I get; at 72, it doesn't take me long to think there's a better way to cut a couple feet off a 150 lb. stick of steel for a project than to lift it down from above head height by hand, drag it over to the saw, cut it, then put it back (STILL weighing 135 pounds) -

so this NEW system will let me move full bundles of steel with the backhoe INTO the container, pick up individual pieces with the CRANE and place 'em on the steel rack, get 'em DOWN and onto roller stands/saw, cut what I need and put 'em BACK, with the most exertion being running a chain hoist...

And THAT means I can keep doing projects easier/longer, MOST of which are intended to make OTHER areas of life in the country easy enough to "get away with it" for more years than I otherwise could... Steve
 

Attachments

  • DSCN2872.JPG
    DSCN2872.JPG
    1.8 MB · Views: 788
  • DSCN1832.JPG
    DSCN1832.JPG
    288.2 KB · Views: 747
   / Container Weld Shop build - #10  
No problem, appreciate the real-world info, thanks - I went back and re-read my first post, and I apparently left out a couple OTHER reasons for the additional wire machine - much lighter weight and inverter technology. Another "down the road" project I'm preparing for requires welding several square tube "H" braces in the field as part of a 2800 foot fence replacement, going from 3' field fencing to 4', so there'll be 9 H braces plus 4 3-legged corner braces, with the cross braces all welded in place (tried welding up corner braces and trying to get them into 3 holes in the field, didn't go well)

The newer MM211 is inverter based and spec'd for 50-60 hZ power/more "generator friendly" than transformer machines that have a harder time adapting to resonances other than their RLC components were intended for - so when THAT project finally rises to the top of the list, the little 52 pound (with 8" spool of flux core) inverter machine will let me throw it and my gen set in the tractor bucket and do all those braces with "stick on a roll", much easier than the much heavier MM252.

Plus, by keeping BOTH, I won't have to give up ONE of the two (main) locations I want to be able to weld at, just leave the "beast" at the first location (along with the 900 lb. table, O/A, plasma and 250AC/DC stick welder) and the "baby" at the container (along with my inverter stick/tig machine, ALSO not very "thirsty" -

That way, I can do most small/medium sized projects in the slightly constricted space of a container with the smaller (28"x54"x3/4") table I scored last year on CL for $200 INCLUDING a KURT milling vise (pic below) - plus, until I get that crane/steel rack done, I don't have a totally dry place to store full-length steel without having to physically lift each piece overhead by HAND (and even THAT isn't totally dry, I either USE it, PAINT it ($$) or let it rust)

All these things get more important the older I get; at 72, it doesn't take me long to think there's a better way to cut a couple feet off a 150 lb. stick of steel for a project than to lift it down from above head height by hand, drag it over to the saw, cut it, then put it back (STILL weighing 135 pounds) -

so this NEW system will let me move full bundles of steel with the backhoe INTO the container, pick up individual pieces with the CRANE and place 'em on the steel rack, get 'em DOWN and onto roller stands/saw, cut what I need and put 'em BACK, with the most exertion being running a chain hoist...

And THAT means I can keep doing projects easier/longer, MOST of which are intended to make OTHER areas of life in the country easy enough to "get away with it" for more years than I otherwise could... Steve

Re: inverter MM211

I'm pretty sure it was Shield Arc who once said "One can NEVER have too many welding machines..." or something like that :)
 
 
Top