how to make 3 point pto logging winch

   / how to make 3 point pto logging winch #31  
Deerlope on this site built a milemarker based hydraulic one. There are posts about it and pictures.

I bought a 9000 lb hydraulic winch to do that and ended up with a Farmi winch from a neighbour getting to old for the foolishness of logging.
Ken
 
   / how to make 3 point pto logging winch #32  
I made a logging winch out of a Ramsey 9000 lb drum PTO winch and it didn't work out. That winch was not up to the punishment of tractor logging. I tore up 2, and spent nearly $1,000 and coutless hours welding, before giving up on this idea.

Problem #1 -- The winch 0.75" drive shaft is too light for this kind of work. They break off in the PTO driveline yoke. The drive shaft is cast into the worm gear, so it's impossible to replace without replacing the worm gear, $275, a couple hours of labor, and a week of down time.

Problem #2 -- This is a slow winch with no power-out. It pulls at less than 1 fps at 1800 RPM. That's mighty slow when rewinding 100' of empty cable. I have a live PTO but no reverse, so I was always slacking off the cable by backing the tractor, just to get the winch clutch out. Sometimes the winching had pulled the tractor back against a tree or stump, trapping it there. Tractor skidding is slow enough already.

Problem #3 -- The frame I made doesn't work for lifting and skidding logs. Using the winch hook for skidding puts too much strain on the winch frame and toplink. It affects steering and traction because it throws the log's weight back on the tractor like a hoist arch would. Dropping the winch to skid logs is too much repeated hassle. Plowing logs through the dirt is land-damaging and slow.

What I would do differently--
1. Use a winch that's meant for heavier work. Recovering a 1,000 lb wheeled Jeep is not the same as yarding a 3,000 lb log uphill through slash and stumps. Make sure it's bidirectional or has a manual driveline clutch. Get a 2-speed if possible.
2. Redesign the frame. This is tricky because you need room for the PTO driveline. The log's weight needs to be on the lift bar, not aft of it. There needs to be a low arch that keeps the load close to the tractor.
3. Build it so there's some protection for the winch and tractor against the log slamming it. Logs like to lunge forward, or get into the rear tires, when skidding downhill.

One nice thing about the winch is having a variable-length cable always with you, even if you use blocks and the drive-away method instead of winching.

The winch model I used is like towtruck-wreckers use, although mine were salvaged out of 1960's military Jeeps. $400 for both. Each had something broken, but together they made a working winch and left me parts to repair it. I got them at a 4X4 salvage yard.

This winch has a 3/4" round drive shaft with a keyway. I ordered a special yoke for the PTO driveline, and had a machine shop put the keyway into it. $260 for the driveline, $15 for the keyway.

I built a 3-point frame using flat and angle steel. The first one wasn't heavy enough and collapsed under the stress. The second one would withstand a cannon attack. The frame design wraps around the winch, so the winch bolts in from front and back, like it did in the Jeep bumper. This is mandatory. A pair of parallel vertical posts go up to the top link. The main cross member is 3/8" steel angle with ends welded in, and holes in the ends for the pins. The rear cross member has the roller fairlead mounted below it.

Note: I tried hooking up my newer Ramsey 12V 9000 lb winch off my Jeep onto the tractor. I used a 2" receiver-to-3 point hitch adapter ($60) and modified a pair of jumper cables ($35). I burned up one winch motor (&@#!!)and got very frustrated with the slow speed before abandoning that idea within a few days.

Our tractor is a 2008 Kubota L3400, 34HP, 4wd.

Now I'm looking for a good gas-powered winch, or a "logging blade."

I blog about small forest management off and on.
 
   / how to make 3 point pto logging winch #33  
PTO drive is best actualy.
Efficient, and stylish.

My winch has a pulling force of 6Kn at middle filled cable drum.
And its PTO driven, by a 3 cylinder VTZ tractor that has 50 horses only.

We are specialised at rough terrain forestry. The tractor is only 2 tonns , the winch is 350 Kg.
It is a DIY make, consisting a verry large clutch and a bend brake.
The tricky part was setting the hegight where the force of pulling attacks the tractor.
It has to be less then rear wheel radius. Otherwise it trys to flip the tractor.
Allso, the 3 point hitch arms have been modified, the blade of the winch is verry close to the tractor.
This is to reduce weight shifting towards the rear axle.
The winch has a rather large blade, bit over an inch thick.
The tractor 3 point hydraulics is bi-directional, it can push the blade down.
Prior winching anything the blade gets pushed down as mutch as possible.
The blade should be as wide as the whole tractor.
When doing a heavy pull the blade does dig in, roughly a feet or so.
Usualy i park the tractor with a stump behind it, that stops it from being pulled back.

I did have commerical winches, but none of them have preformed as good as the current diy make.
Reasons:
-> blade size was too small
-> structure of the wich was not strong enough
-> bad force attack point
-> winch was too far behind the tractor, shifting the point of weight towards the rear too mutch, reducing effective tractive efforth.

The bottom part (round 3/4 feet) is bendt in 45 degree, once the tree is winched to the tractor and i lift the whole thing it helps to support the weight. Allso i need not to winch the tree stiff right to the blade, that would make steering difficult.

The largest trees this 2 tonn 50 hp russian tractor can pull (with all of its branches as a whole, same condition it was felt) is diameter of 2 feet at base. Keep in mind we mostly work at flooded areas. This is a small 4x4 tractor, was choosen becouse its small. I can navigate with ease where larger machinery could not even get to. Roboust and simple. By simple i mean air cooling, 8 speed forward and 6 backward, it won't get any simpler than that.

I think a proper winch size is roughly 2 times more pulling force at mid drum, then the tractor weight including the winch it self. Winching has a significant traction advantage over drive away.

PTO drive is easy to make, tractors with multiple PTO speeds have advantage of multi-speed winching, great if you have to work with long cables. Less likely to fail than hydraulic drive, and not even nearly as expensive to make.
You can not stall the engine with hydraulics, that allso means you can not use all avaialable engine power.
Even that small portion is reduced , hydraulic pumps and motors are both not more effcient than 90%.
see for your self,
Hydraulic Oil Pumps - Horsepower Required
this site shows how to calculate the hp demand of a pump (roughly)
Now, you know the maximum pressure you have and flowrate, and will notice that most tractor hydraulics are under 30 hp even for large tractors.
PTO drive can utilise all available engine power, ad the required gearing canbe as simle as 2 gears.
angular bevel gears, that is.
 
   / how to make 3 point pto logging winch #34  
we have a belarus 500 1974 6100lb rig with powder loaded tires. check our most recent post on this thread we're logging our land 10,000 lb ramsey winch it's massive and can't fit below or inbetween out 3 pt so my idea is raise it up attach it to our rear axel frame and off set it to the left so that it alligns better with out PTO THAT way we can have more freedom to build our logging arch to our 3 pt and still have the range of motion to raise and lower it
 
   / how to make 3 point pto logging winch #36  
I bought an old hydraulic winch from a roll back truck and my dad and I designed and built this one. Works really good.

Winch 004.jpgWinch 003.jpg
 
   / how to make 3 point pto logging winch #37  
Would something like this work? It is out of one my favorite old books. The price would be right if you have an old axle laying around.

One of my favourites too.
There has been many HM winches constructed, using an automotive diff,
 
   / how to make 3 point pto logging winch #38  
RE: What else is in that book

I know this thread is old...

What book are these pages out of ?? Looks like some good reading !! :thumbsup:

Thanks
 
   / how to make 3 point pto logging winch #39  
Here a video of a home made forwarder from Czechia or Poland: These folks have been thrown back on their own resources under the system they used to live under, so conversions and backyard engineering is pretty common out there. This guy has a Zetor Super 50 (built 1956-1968) which was originally 42hp at 1350rpm, later 50hp at 1500rpm. In countries like Sweden they were sold as 70hp at 2200rpm with original engine.

This guy puts in a 100hp six cylinder truck engine, which is a license of a British Leyland engine, also used in the well known Bizon combines (now New Holland). Bigger front wheels with braked truck hubs for lower rolling resistance with that six pot on the front, orbitrol hydraulic steering, and winches front and rear, and rear tires of a combine, to create the ultimate skidder... He also includes some pictures of other Super 50 conversions which he watched for ideas.

Its a long video but an enjoyable watch if you lean back with a pint of beer.. p.s. wheelie-ing with a bunch of logs on the back is perfectly normal over there, so thats probably the reason this guy didnt use a driven front axle of a Praga truck, which is also a popular conversion for these older tractors :)

 
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   / how to make 3 point pto logging winch #40  
I have been pondering a home made winch that would include a 4 speed truck transmission, which would allow for reverse. That coupled to a rear axle to make the drum, and PTO driven, could work... problem would be how compact it could be made, add all that heavy metal together and my little tractor couldn't lift it, let alone drag it and the log! I'll post pics if I ever put anything together.
 
 
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