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  1. #1
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    Sep 2006
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    Default Backhoe Subframe Help

    Good day,

    I can weld with mig or stick, but I don't know a heck of a lot about design, so I thought someone might be able to provide suggestions. Yes, I have viewed other subframes online, but I need a little more assistance.

    I currently own a 2910 New Holland Tractor. I recently purchased an old Arps 728 backhoe. (Please see attached photographs). In reviewing the photos, where would you suggest I attach the subframe that I will build.

    1) Tractor photo: There are three possible mounting brackets. Two brackets are shown at the bottom of the rear axle. One bracket is used to mount the swing arm and the other is used to mount the ROP. Then there is the center or middle bracket which would typically connect to a metal bar coming from under the seat of the backhoe attachment.

    2) Backhoe photo: The outside brackets are used to mount the swing arms, then there are two other brackets which stick out which I do not know where they would be used. The last main bracket is just under the seat and this normally is connected mid point at the rear of the tractor.



    Thanks for your help,

    Rick G.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by okgat; 03-22-2007 at 01:42 PM. Reason: Forgot to Load Photographs

  2. #2
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    292
    Location
    wright city, mo.
    Tractor
    KUBOTA L3000DT, FEL.

    Default Re: Backhoe Subframe Help

    SIR,
    sorry, do not see your photos. did it work?
    accordionman
    wlbrown
    wright city,mo.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    1,924
    Location
    NH seacoast & Coos County
    Tractor
    Kioti DK45S

    Default Re: Backhoe Subframe Help

    okgat, I adapted a Long 3pt backhoe to a Kioti 45S using a Woods subframe adapter. It just involved installing the subframe adapter on the tractor & welding 2 flanges on the backhoe to fit the Woods adapter. I have less than 8 hours in the entire install. Look here Woods Equipment Company Operator's Manuals
    for the manuals for Woods subframes. I didn't see your tractor model, but the manuals will give you a clear picture of optimal attachment points and you may find an adapter that is a direct fit or can be modified to fit. My Kioti dealer consulted the Woods dealer to find one I could modify as Woods didn't have a direct bolt up model for the 45S at the time. The $800 price for the adapter seemed steep but now I have a quality quick detachable mount. I think I posted some pictures a while back under the heading of 'toy box', wife's name for my barn. MikeD74

  4. #4
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    395
    Location
    Maine
    Tractor
    1260 Massey

    Default Re: Backhoe Subframe Help

    MikeD74T,
    Thanks for the woods manual idea that gives a really clear idea on how to connect the sub- frame to the tractor.
    Again thanks
    Phil
    Still digging pond

  5. #5
    New Member
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    Sep 2006
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    17

    Default Re: Backhoe Subframe Help

    I too would like to thank you for the Wood's manual idea. Since receiving your information, I have been comparing the 3 pt hook-up on my tractor with that of the backhoe attachment trying to decide a practical layout.

    On my 2910, the lift arms are connected to the tractor on each side at the bottom of the rear axle and the center link is then connected to the upper mid bracket. Would someone please explain again, where the stresses occur that cause failures. I ask this because the brackets beneath the rear axle seem "beefy".

    Thanks,

    Rick G.

  6. #6
    Bronze Member jarokoro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    51
    Location
    Mid-Missouri Area
    Tractor
    John Deere 990

    Default Re: Backhoe Subframe Help

    You will want to build a sub-frame that distributes the load stress the length of the tractor frame. Most sub-frames mount to the loader arm mounts (mid tractor) and the tractor axel housing on each side of the housing using existing bolts or changing them out with ones a little longer.

    My JD 990 has two frame rails that mount from the loader arm back to the rear axel/rops brackets and then two brackets on each side of the rear axel housing. I have no 3 Point connections at all to my back hoe it is secured by a locking mechanism on the front rails and sits on the rear mounts only. Someone with more engineering skills, more time and more importantly money then me; came up with idea because of structural integrity issues, breakage and ease of installing and removal otherwise my BH would mount on the lift arms.

    There is quite a bit of threads about this subject but the bottom line is if the BH is of any size or weight (600 lbs +) you want it to spread the weight and stress to the entire tractor. I looked up your model tractor and at around only 37 HP anything that will dig more than 4 I would want mounted solid so not to break the tractor in half.

    I will post pics if I have time.
    Rob

    JD 990 w/300CX FEL, Woods BB60, Auger,JD Blade, Rock Rake, Load Trail GN Dump, 20' GN Trl, JD 8A Backhoe and other Misc Toys

    I reject your reality and substitute my own! Adam Savage of MythBusters

  7. #7
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    1,924
    Location
    NH seacoast & Coos County
    Tractor
    Kioti DK45S

    Default Re: Backhoe Subframe Help

    Quote Originally Posted by okgat
    Would someone please explain again, where the stresses occur that cause failures. Rick G.
    Tractors with 3pt backhoes most ofter break in the clutch area. Think of the whole tractor/hoe as a lever with the fulcrum at the rear axle/outriggers. When working the backhoe sometimes can lift the front of the tractor off the ground. The backhoe is strong enough for this and usually the rear axle is also as it is designed for carrying/pulling loads beyond the tractors own weight. The tractor front axle is also usually designed for extra weight as evidenced by weight bars that can be added for plowing etc. The midpoint of the frame will carry those loads but with backhoe operation the the forces suddenly increase/decrease & reverse direction. The clutch area being the weakest is usually where failure show up it it's going to. A subframe mount usually reaches just beyond the clutch area & reinforces it. The other areas of potential failure are also reinforced by the rigidity of the subframe spreading the forces over multiple points of attachment, more so than a 3pt mount. Look at most FEL mounts, especially the older ones. None rely on the tractor clutch housings for strength, all carry some rigid structure from the front axle to the rear axle. Also look at industrial tractors, all have an independant (steel - not cast) frame for loader /backhoe attachment. MikeD74T

  8. #8
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
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    1,675
    Location
    Central VA, USA
    Tractor
    Mahindra 6000 MWFD, 2 1950's Farmalls, 1974 Farmall 140, 1967 Mf 135Delux

    Default Re: Backhoe Subframe Help

    Quote Originally Posted by okgat
    I
    On my 2910, the lift arms are connected to the tractor on each side at the bottom of the rear axle and the center link is then connected to the upper mid bracket. Would someone please explain again, where the stresses occur that cause failures. I ask this because the brackets beneath the rear axle seem "beefy".

    Thanks,

    Rick G.
    The greatest stress point is the Upper mid bracket. I've got a friend with a 1900 Ford that he uses a 7500 Woods 3pt BH on, He broke the mid/toplink braket off the tractor when he was working the hoe...had to find a GOOD welder to fabricate another on to bolt back on. BobG in VA

  9. #9
    New Member
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    Sep 2006
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: Backhoe Subframe Help

    Rob and Mike I want to thank you for your explaination, it helps a great deal.

    Rob, if you have a chance, would you post your pictures.

    In summary, what I believe I understand is that the backhoe causes stresses at the clutch area beyond what the tractor can take. By the way, the old backhoe I bought is well over 600 pounds, I imagine probably closer to 1000-1500 pounds.

    The cure is to attach a subframe, first near the front mount of the bucket attachment along the bucket frame rail and then at the bucket frame rail at the rear axle using longer bolts.

    Thanks again for your input,

    Rick G.

  10. #10
    New Member
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    Sep 2006
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    17

    Default Re: Backhoe Subframe Help

    Thanks for your information Bob G. I am going to have to come up with a design that eliminates using the mid point connection or reduces the stress so I don't have the same problem.

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