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  1. #11

    Default Re: Pricing

    Am I missing something....If the dealer can't lower his price he can't lower his price. As the consumers, we're not responsible for ensuring that he stays in business or even that he runs an efficient business. Our economy supports competition through information....we all know roughly what everything costs. We can even order a tractor on-line and have it delivered half-way across the country. The times are changing and the old-way dealers are slowly learning to adapt or move into another business.

    I find plain old customer service to be worth a lot more than a few hundred bucks. A hot cup of coffee and a freindly conversation about my needs and what is available to support them is what its all about.

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    92
    Location
    Battleground, WA, USA
    Tractor
    Kioti LK-3504 w/FEL & R4's

    Default Re: Pricing

    When I was tractor shopping, mainly for JD and Kub, the main thing I noticed was the farther I went away from the big city, the better the prices were. I got prices that were in a $1800 spread on a kubota 2910 with FEL & R4's. Maybe keeping that in mind can save some money. You can always have your warranty work done and get parts at the close dealership, even if you buy from a distant one. They usually make more money on service and parts than the orginal puchase.

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Posts
    1,807
    Location
    Sharpsburg, Md
    Tractor
    John Deere 4100 HST

    Default Re: Pricing

    <font color=blue>The internet will hurt alot of dealers. I hope it doesn't put my favorite dealer out of business. </font color=blue>

    Huh... I have not seen many businesses "hurt" by Internet shopping!! Internet purchasing was thought to be a WalMart of sorts with all of the hoopla and Internet growth during the past few years. Take a look at the mortality rate of eBusinesses!! [img]/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif[/img] Not a very nice picture.

    If your dealer goes out of business, do not blame it on the Internet. There are probably many other factors involved. No one wishes any business to fail (unless the business is not consumer oriented or sells junk).

    From what I understand from conversations I've had with dealers, their pricing structure is dependent upon the volume of equipment sold. The more they sell, the bigger a discount they get from the manufacturer. Think WalMart and the model they use for setting their prices. Volume purchasing, eleminating the middleman = lower prices to the consumer. Sounds pretty good to me.

    There is competition and there is greed. I wouldn't try to equate the two. Usually, the greedy businessman looses out in the end and gets his just reward. Failure!!

    My thoughts... only mine... it's Friday and time to call it a week. Now it's time to plan for some seat time this weekend!! Yee-haw... the smell of diesel in the morning.[img]/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    Terry

  4. #14

    Default Re: Pricing

    I agree with you 100%. Everyone has to make a living. You have to make a profit. Tractors aren't like big car lots that may sell 20 cars a day. A dealer may only sell 1 or 2 new tractors a week. How many of you have bought new cars? Well guess what? Unless you're the man that owns the dealership, then you were taken for a ride. There are both good and bad dealers. If you're the kind of person who can't seem to find a good one, then you may be the problem. I know, I know, we all want good deals. But dealers have to stay in business. If you really want the best deal then look in the classifieds. Buy from an individual. Go to an auction. Do some work yourself.

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    953
    Location
    Texas
    Tractor
    Mahindra 4110

    Default Re: Pricing

    I understand your points, and agree that you should cut your local dealer some slack, but at the same time, there's a difference between cutting a "nice dealer" some slack and throwing your money away.

    I have always been willing to pay a premium to those located close to me for products and services, but there's a point to where this becomes unreasonable. In my recent quest to buy a tractor, the dealers close to me were running $2000 - $2400 higher than one that was about 5 times the distance. [img]/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif[/img] (below list, but still much higher than the lowest quote I found)

    I entered into negotiations with the "local" dealers, and although they were all very nice, they were unwilling to match (much less beat) the price I was offered elsewhere. [img]/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif[/img] I even offered $900 more than the lowest quote to the local dealers - and they still were unable to meet the higher price [img]/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif[/img].

    Am I mad at them? No. Were they mad at me? No. (one even told me directly that he completely understood the economics of it).

    Why did this happen? As alluded to by Obi1, the "Wal-Mart" model - e.g. the business of high volume/low margin vs. low volume/high margin. Both business models have their place, but let's be honest - any type of business has to choose where they fit in this continuum and adjust as necessary.

    If a dealer's afraid that the "Internet will hurt my business" - then get on the Internet! [img]/w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif[/img] Web-site hosting is not that expensive and even if you don't post your prices on your web-site, responding to e-mail is pretty darn easy.

    The further you live from metroplex type areas, it follows the harder it would be to get volume business, but, there is no reason for a dealer to stick their head in the sand and not take advantage of low cost marketing tools (such as the Internet).

    By doing so, there is the very real chance that the sales volume will increase because of price competition, especially if they look at following a JIT business model for certain brands/models of tractor (e.g. have a "demo" on the lot and only order when a sale is made and $$$ in hand - not for every model, but for those that it makes sense). [img]/w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif[/img]

    The beauty of the JIT model is that cost is incurred only after the sale - so a lot of the OH to stay in business simply doesn't apply. Additionally I bet a lot of customers would be willing to wait a week or 2 for a shiny new tractor "straight from the distributor" instead of taking possession of a "new" tractor that has sat on the lot for months exposed to elements/novice drivers/etc. On top of that, the more tractors sold, the more revenue can be generated from parts/supplies/accessories from the enlarged customer base.

    I guess my point is that yes, I want the local small-time/good relationship dealer to be around tomorrow, and I'm even willing to pay a premium for this proximity to service to a degree.

    Margins may be thin for the dealer (regardless of business model), but at the same time, margins are awful thin on the other side of the equation (e.g. for farmers/ranchers). Personally, I am unwilling to subsidize a failing business model for those dealers who refuse to adjust their approach because "that's the way we always did it". Selling tractors (or cars, or trucks or &lt;insert item here&gt is a business, and business owners have to adjust their approach to stay in business - like it or not.

    I'm really not trying to get preachy or "dealer bash" by any means, I'm simply trying to point out that while times may be "lean" for dealers, times are "lean" for consumers as well and it may be necessary for the dealer to change their approach to ensure they can stay in business.

  6. #16

    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    110
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Tractor
    New Holland TC33D

    Default Re: Pricing

    It's about time we had a heated thread!

    We (the consumer) don't owe dealers a [censored] thing - including slack. I like my dealer and I drove 50 minutes to buy from him because he was the lowest in my area - but others on this board got a better deal than me so he still made money. But even if he would have sold it to me under his cost wouldn't make me want to donate to his relief fund. If a dealer or any business person is that stupid then they deserve to go out of business because they are going to anyway.

    My feeling is that it is a game and the dealers hold all the cards - unless you can fab a compact in your garage.

    Power to the consumer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![img]/w3tcompact/icons/king.gif[/img]


  7. #17

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    953
    Location
    Texas
    Tractor
    Mahindra 4110

    Default Re: Pricing

    Let the contest begin!!! [img]/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    With that being said, I actually agree with you in that you don't owe the dealer anything, but at the same time I (and some others) are willing to pay some sort of premium for the relationship/proximity aspect.

    What one believes as "reasonable" is their own opinion, and we all have different "pain" points with regards to how much $$$ to shell out.

    For me, my personal opinion was I was willing to go $900 higher to go "local" (my costs in gas/hotel/food/etc. added up to about $400 to make the trip to pick up my new tractor, so really the "extra" I was willing to pay the local dealer was $500)

    That was my pain point based on what I value my personal time at and what I felt was "reasonable" - others would have done it for less or more based on their opinions.

    I guess my perspective is somewhat divided since I play "both sides of the fence" - sometimes as a businessman, sometimes as a consumer. I don't think it's unreasonable to pay a bit more by understanding that a "mom &amp; pop" shop simply can't compete as aggressively as a "Wal-Mart" if they do offer things such as proximity/service.

    At the same time, I, like you, am unwilling to pay unreasonable prices to "subsidize" a business that refuses to change and stay competitive. I guess I'm saying, for me, there is a balancing point between cost &amp; convenience.


  8. #18

    Default Re: Pricing

    <font color=blue>...there is a balancing point between cost &amp; convenience... </font color=blue>

    Nicely said... [img]/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    {... but on the other side of the coin... you will always have people driving 30 miles to save $2...[img]/w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif[/img]}


  9. #19

    Default Re: Pricing

    Dealers will charge you what they can convince you it's worth, unfortunately there it an inherant distrust in sales that the dealers/sales people can only blame themselves for- they created this system of buissness and now they have to" lie" in it. No, I don't think I owe dealers anything except my honesty, which I fully expect in return.[img]/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif[/img] The things I have learned is that I choose where my money goes ,and I see a lot of owners who become "Kings" and want to be treated accordingly; work one hour a day, pay their employees bare minimum and keep the ransome for themselves ,and if you don't like it you can "walk "and I will get someone else in here that the costomer does'nt recognize. I try to do buissness with fair hardworking consistant and familiar faces. I did pay more for my L3000 than I would have at CARVER, but it's my hometown dealer.[img]/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif[/img] ( No offense Mr. CARVER ,I just don't know you or your employees)

  10. #20

    Default Re: Pricing

    none taken ... i agree totally...

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