Equal Weight - 4WD - Reversible

   / Equal Weight - 4WD - Reversible #1  

EasyEd

Bronze Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
60
Hey All,

What is the "skinny" on these? (Check BCS, Ferrari or Pasquali)

Checkitout

Any good? Are Lombardini or VM Daimler Benz engines any good?

I've been doing "homework" trying to find all the manufacturers of these style tractors.

So far I've found:

These mentioned above (basically all three sell the same tractor from what I can tell)
Antonio Carraro
Valpadana
AGT from somewhere in the central europe I believe - use Lombardini engines
Maybe others?

I'm bettin there is a Chinese or Indian or other gray market equivalent I don't know of - does anybody?

A tractor with a very low center of gravity with adequate clearance and equal weight distribution and reversible steering and 4 wheel drive and cab or not and potentially narrow or wide - somehow just makes too much sense to me.

In addition to normal tractor use - given these kinds of tractors can work steep ground I've been wondering about the feasibility of using these for fuels reduction forestry work in which you are normally taking out small trees and need maneuverability without excessive ground impact and often on steep slopes.

As an aside I've found that there are quite a number of implements/attachments for these and other small tractors - one just has to do one heck of a lot of searching. For example check out this cute little round baler from Wolagri

Columbia R 500 Minibaler

A miniround baler with a wrapper if you want - who knew!

Not too sure how useful it is but I see some potential for baling small properties for some entreprenurial types with small tractors. Of course I suspect it costs an arm and a leg! :D

Anyway I'm just wondering if anybody has run across other tractors of the Antonio Carraro type that I haven't listed and if so could let me know about them.

Thanks! -Ed-
 
   / Equal Weight - 4WD - Reversible #2  
OK, EasyEd, It's becoming clear that you are interested in things off the beaten path... little cows and non-conformist tractors! I know nothing of either. How do you get over the usual worries of parts, service, local dealers, etc.... Any reliability statistics on these things?
 
   / Equal Weight - 4WD - Reversible
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Hey All,

TexasJ Thats what I'm trying to find out! I know there are dealers for some of these in the US and likely Canada. One dealer is about 5 hours from me. I also know that there are people in the US trying to find support for some of these tractors so there have been importers/dealers around that apparently didn't stay in business. In terms of your parts, service, dealer question well it's nice to have those right next door but it comes down to costs of options and I haven't looked at all the options yet. I'll give you an example. Right now the Canadian dollar is at par with the American dollar. Cars cost lots less in the US. Many Canadians are buying cars in the US and bringing them to Canada with in many cases no warranty coverage at all. But if you save $15,000 or $20,000 dollars (some are especially on high end cars) will that make up for the lack of a warranty? I think so. If you save only $5000 maybe not. So everything is relative and fluid.

Your right I do look for stuff off the beaten path but in order for me to use off the wall stuff it needs to make sense. What I can't do is see only what's in front of me or do what everybody else is doing without a hard look at as many alternatives as I can find. I've learned that in life timing really is everything - an idea that is bad at one time may be good a very short time later under different circumstances. So I keep my mind open.

Or as one quite profitable farmer friend of mine in Alberta told me - In deciding what to plant - unless it's absolutely obvious - he often simply asks around and tries to figure what most other farmers are doing - then he does the opposite. He says it has made him money far more often than he's ever been disappointed.

Nonconformist tractors and little cows have some very intriguing possibilities. We should discuss the little cows further down below.

-Ed-
 
   / Equal Weight - 4WD - Reversible #4  
I agree, one of my favorite sayings is, "It all depends!"
 
   / Equal Weight - 4WD - Reversible #5  
Take a look at Power Trac.

There is a forum for them right here on TBN, where they are sworn by and sworn at with equal fervor. :)
 
   / Equal Weight - 4WD - Reversible #6  
If you don't want to conform take a look at Power-Trac. The owners who have them are rabid about them, but you need to be prepared to do your own work. Upside is they are amazingly versatile and handle like nothing you have been on. Downside is they require you to do your own maintenance and repairs. Most of the parts can be bought at Napa but you have to be willing to turn a wrench. Also they are not ground pulling machines. If you plan to run a multi disk system look elsewhere.

The tractors you are looking at are orchard oriented. Very reliable from what my friends in europe tell me, but not sure how easy it is to get parts in the US.

The Antonio do have a dealership network, and they are so popular they never come up on the market. They are also brutally expensive.

Rumblings are that Deer is going to have a similar tractor shortly to the Carraro. No price listed yet.
 
   / Equal Weight - 4WD - Reversible #8  
If you want a brochure on them I'll be happy to send it!

We have no equivalents, and are a proprietary company. Our dealer net work is definitely growing.... During the 1990's up to 2003 or so, ACA went through some vicious growing pains. Bad dealers, unscrupulous & indiscriminate grey market importers who were bringing these tractors in from Europe, (not Japan).

They were bringing in models that were intended to farm 12 to 20 acres of owner operator farm land. Not 120 to the 5000 acre farms we now serve. Which wreaked havoc on our reputation... because these importers also had NO PARTS and no clue how to even take care of these tractors.

We have developed tractors for America since, and put 4 year /4000 hour warranties on all our tractors whether they are to be used in a private owner environment or a corporate farm. Our dealers have yearly opportunities to send their service and parts employees to Italy for yearly training at our manufacturing and assembly plants and a tech school at VM Detroit Diesel engine division. We assign our own dealers and because we hold one of the largest market shares of vineyard and orchard tractors sold in Europe, our dealers there are able to control the available outflow of those tractors and greatly restrict the out flow of those models to the USA where we do not stock many parts for those European models.

Our made for America models required higher horse power and HAD to be built a lot heavier to tolerate the brutal usage these tractors see in the corporate orchards and vineyards were a tractor can see several hundred different operators over its usable life time.. Many do not speak English, let a lot read any written language. Making it nearly impossible to give all operators formal instruction or concise safety procedures in writing that they can take with them and study or use as needed when in the tractor.

Most also work in steep terrain where housing cannot be developed and the land is cheap. The plantings are often high density for profitability, were there will be only mere inches separating the tractor and the bearing fruit trees from severe damage. So these tractors not only must be highly stable but maneuverable, simple, and able to with stand all levels of operators and a host of implements that give them the versatility and function to go into most any work capacity or environment.

As for the competition coming out with a comparable tractor,,, I call it the John-Doni. It’s a Goldoni painted green. From what my personal snooping around has yielded, I heard it's hard to get parts and they're keeping the shops at JD full... The only thing it has going for it, is Deere’s strong network of dealers, but if they can't get the parts, the number of dealers does not matter.
The John Doni has an 8x8 tranny with a shuttle gear that requires clutching between forward and reverse. The Carraro is a true Synchro 16x16, and does not require clutching between because of the quality and precision of the synchronized inverter and the helical gear shape.

The John Doni has only rear breaks. The Carraro comparable TGF has front and rear wet disc brakes on it's Ergit models, (these are the workhorses of their tractor models) They are designed to hold back massive spray tanks and mowers as well as logs or what ever tasks you are using it for even under the most steep terrain. If there is traction for the tires to get a hold of, this tractor will hold the load.

Carraro's 4x4 & diff lock system is on a lever controlled valve, JohnDoni's is a electro-hydraulic... Carraro’s system is cleaner, simple and more reliable. Carraro also features articulated Homokenetic joints for tighter steering under full power with the 4 WD system engaged, giving the Carraro a 3 to 4 ft tighter turning radius. Also, on the Carraro, once you turn the steering wheel too far to the right or left it will automatically disengage the diff lock system preventing possible damage. The competition can't say that!
When it comes to traction both companies will offer you a tractor with 360/70R24's but Carraro can also offer the 320/70R20 front tire, while the John Doni can only offer the standard tractor tire at 260/70/R16 because it's a conventional tractor that has been cut down to make it a cross over.
Carraro’s ability to offer a larger tire also makes them more comfortable for an operator and the larger tire certainly will smooth out the ride reducing fatigue in the corporate environment.
All Carraro tractors also feature 15 degrees of oscillation. Which is double that of the competition and most other tractors on the market. This allows the tractor to keep 4 wheels in contact with the ground under the some of the most adverse conditions and greatly improving over all safety and control. Carraro also has a few models that oscillate and Articulate.
Plus the Carraro tractors have an over hanging engine configuration, having 60% of the weight on the front axle before adding attachments gives the Carraro the best balance for pulling as well and the greatest stopping power. Other tractors become rear heavy and take away traction form and already light front end that is handicapped with small tires. The John Doni is no exception. In direct pulling contests (Posted 04-07 Tractor People Magazine) the TGF Carraro out pulled the competition hands down and reined in its superiority.
As for over all ground clearance both units with the 360/70R24 rear tires the TGF Carraro has 3 more inches of ground clearance and a far greater comparable static point of over turning, at 51 degrees, where the competition became unstable at 36 degrees. This is a huge issue when working steep headlands for vineyards and in orchards.
In the Carraro cabs the air inlet filter is 14 X15 inches. Where the competition is 5x16 making them only 1/3 the size and they route their air flow over the cabs main electrical junction,,, in models I personally looked at. (God help you when your filters go bad,,, chemicals will eat that whole fuse block)
The competitions cab is 52 inches which is the same as the Carraro's "Protector” Cougar Cab, but the seat height in the competition was 3 inches higher (then the Carraro's smallest cab), giving an operator even less head room. The Carraro Protector Cab (none Cougar) is 57 inches on the inside, meaning an operator has an additional 5 inches versus the competitions standard cab and 8 inches more then their low profile. The outside cab heights are the same at 72 to 75 inches (variation for tire pressure etc) on the competition and the Protector Cab, while Carraro’s Cougar Cab is 65 Inches; additionally the competitions cabs were significantly wider at 32 inches, vs. Carraro’s width at 24. Having windows all the way up to the ceiling Carraro is able to accomplish FULL visibility while protecting valuable fruit and trees from greatly reduced contact. Information about the cab design is provided by comparison from in house files. The competition is using the old discontinued Carraro design that proved to be less then reliable, uncomfortable and noisy.

Comparisons information is based on as much information as possible, It does not account for changes/upgrades or modifications in models, and is provided strictly as a helpful reference tool and should be treated only as such.
 
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