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  1. #11

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    Default Re: Mule or Ranger (diesel or Gas)?

    Roy, some great points. One area where a gas engine is used for both reliability and endurance is aviation, Cessnas, Pipers, Beech etc. that use piston engines rely on a high torque, and lower then max RPM for HP for cruising almost exclusively. Cruising at 2500 to 2700 is typical RPM for these. The engines can go 2000 hours before having a mandatory rebuild. Its not that they are worn out like race cars, its primarily safety. I still do not know what usable torque/HP is. I know my diesel truck has neither, but I still like it and the mileage isn't bad.
    When I think of these little Gators or Mules, I don't think of them as anything much more then transportation, at least thats pretty much all I ever see them used for be it around the golf course's, my neighbors driving the kids around and getting the mail, or my sister's Mule to drive down to the barn to feed the mules (miniature donkeys). It is perhaps what has influenced me to think "why" a noisy, and admittedly smellier diesel. I suppose if one uses it to haul stuff routinely, pull very heavy stuff etc., its a possibility to consider. The few I have drove did not suffer from power to say the least, all were gas. For me, I'll just use my tractor for that stuff. It'll pull 10 times the load lift many times more in the loader then the things could hold and is almost as fast.
    My critiera would have little to do with a need for "big torque" or "ultra longevity", it would have more to do with comfort, be it sound, smell or the ability to start and stop the engine frequently. I have 3 diesels, my International tractor a 3 cylinder beast, my 4 cylinder ultra smooth and darn clean burning kubota (gobs of torque at 1500 RPM) and my Navistar in my Ford truck, a normally aspirated, very reliable and well built but power lacking V8. It needs a Banks bad, real bad, but I just don't want to spend the dough on it. Since we are talking diesels, I would love to have a new Powerstroke, Duramax or Cummins. I like the Duramax because it is so much quieter then the Navistar or Cummins. All 3 are pretty good though, have driven the later 2 extensively. Thanks for the comments and please add some more, Rat...

  2. #12

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    Default Re: Mule or Ranger (diesel or Gas)?

    Jim, check out the ones made by Pioneer, they are great. Only available in gas though.

  3. #13
    Platinum Member Devildog's Avatar
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    Aug 2001
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    Luray, VA
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    Kubota B2630

    Default Re: Mule or Ranger (diesel or Gas)?

    If it was, airplanes would run diesels.

    Believe it or not but commercial jets, and military planes pretty much run off of JP-5, which is just another grade of diesel. We also ran all our diesel equipment in the military off of JP-5. I reference JP-5 because that was what we used, there are different grades of JP. JP stands for Jet Propulsion and 5 is just the grade.

    Rat, also if your 7.3 is anemic I know an excellent site you can go to which can help that out. One word Chip, Injectors, Bigger turbo, Air inlet, propane. [img]/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif[/img]
    The thing is with diesels like the 7.3 navistar or the 5.9 Cummins and now the GM Duramax, is with proper maintenance they will go 500,000 miles or more. And as Richard said there is less maintenance. Yes they do make a lot more noise but they are also more efficient when under load as compared to a gas engine. I did hear a Duramax the other day and it shocked me just how quiet it was.

    If I had the option like Jim does to purchase the diesel for only $200.00 more, I would buy it. But Im a little Bias since I grew up in a truck driving family who loves the smell of diesel[img]/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif[/img]
    ____________________________________________
    Take care all, Jim

  4. #14
    Super Member
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    Default Re: Mule or Ranger (diesel or Gas)?

    Rat,
    First of all stay to talking apples to apples. We're not talking about airplane engines we're talking about a Mule. And yes if it wasn't for the weight issue you would have diesels in airplanes. You couldn't have a diesel in a jet because they don't make diesel jet engines. Completely different technology for different uses. Same goes for cars. We're not talking about a race car we're talking about a utility vehicle that isn't so much concerned with top speed but getting a job done. If you already know all the physics of the diesel motor then there isn't alot of reason for me to waste space and post it here. That wasn't the question.

    Now if you want to stay to the subject and talk strictly about what the man asked about then what has been said about the diesel is true. It will be more reliable in the long run, it will require less maint.- how do I know because I've already had to work on the gas motor in the Mule and many other small gas engines, it will produce more torque in the useable range- what do I mean by that? What I mean by that is to get the same torque on a gas motor you would have to go at a much higher speed and rpm than you would with the diesel. What I mean by useable torque to hp is that the torque produced in a diesel is at a lower rpm and speed than is produced in a gas motor. Also with the same displacement gas motor the diesel will produce more torque period at any speed or rpm, the diesel will have better resale value as well. Now strictly sticking to the facts it will be somewhat noisier and it will smell a little more than a gas engine. Personally the noise doesn't bother me and I'd just as soon smell diesel as I would smell carbon monoxide. That's a personal issue and one he will have to decide for himself.

    Now does he need a diesel, no probably not. But if you're talking about a $200 difference between the two then I'd go for diesel. In the whole time he owns probably the only thing he'll ever have to do to it is change the oil and air filter. With a gas one after it gets to a certain point there will be alot of maint. to them to keep them running. Also you haven't even touched on the another point and that is starting them. Even my new Gator is not the easiest thing in the world to start, we won't even go into the Mule on a sub zero day. With the diesel you turn the switch, wait for the glow and start it right up. Glow plugs not working, just squirt a shot of ether in and you are on your way. MY PERSONAL OPINION you just can't beat a diesel for these kinds of applications.

  5. #15

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    Default Re: Mule or Ranger (diesel or Gas)?

    Easy Richard. Heres the question repeated "Should I go for the diesel or Gas for $200 less? Not planning on doing any heavy "stuff" with either... occasional heavy loads but mostly "touring" the property with wife and two dogs!"

    My point about planes, or was it trains, or automobiles while certainly off the subject of Mules and Gators, had to do with your comments about reliability, thats it. I think your not alone in having worked on gas engines, I have rebuilt many and one 6.9 L diesel. (Jim, JC4HD has a whole bunch of gas engines, look at his profile, he probably knows a thing or two as well) As far as reliability goes, a Mule or Gator etc, probably won't experience the kind of high miles a truck gets, the punishing treatment a tractor gets and if thats what one has in mind for it, perhaps the diesel is a good bet in a little Mule or Gator (he's driving around the property with his wife and dogs). The Kawasaki Mule we have is now lets see a 94 so thats about 8 years old. Gets used once a day, engine is instant start, has had one battery. Several oil filter changes, new radiator fluid and a air cleaner. Now whats so different about the maintenance here as opposed to what a little (Yanmar diesel perhaps) would experience. Lets put things in perspective. I very simply stated, that I would opt for the gas engine for 2 reasons SMELL and NOISE, thats it. My neighbor has a John Deere army green Gator, the day it was delivered approximately a year and half ago, I heard this racket, wondered what it was, saw them bombing around, they drove up to us, it stunk and still does and was very noisy. Thats my opinion, but its THEIRS also. I do respect your opinion and am not trying to discredit your comments in anyway other then to help all of us who might decide to purchase the said item. Thanks for all your contribuitions Richard, Rat...

    P.S. carbon monoxide is odorless.

    Jim, JP5 is actually more consistent with that of Kerosene
    I know about the engine enhancements for the 7.3 IDI, they sound great, I've been to the Banks site. They are pricey man, way up there. If I ever pull a big load, it would be a consideration, Thanks Rat

  6. #16
    Super Member
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    Default Re: Mule or Ranger (diesel or Gas)?

    "Lets put things in perspective. I very simply stated, that I would opt for the gas engine for 2 reasons SMELL and NOISE, thats it."


    If that's all you meant enough said. We're both in agreement there.

  7. #17
    Super Star Member RoyJackson's Avatar
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    Bethel, Vermont
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    John Deere 4520 MFWD, Deere 855D UTV, Z920A Zero Turn Mower and assorted implements

    Default Re: Mule or Ranger (diesel or Gas)?

    2 reasons SMELL and NOISE, thats it...

    Well, I got a cold..can't smell a thing...hard a hearin' too!!!

  8. #18
    Gold Member JC4HD's Avatar
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    Live in Lower Hudson Valley Tractor used mostly in Central NY
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    Sold the 4310 downsized to a JD 2320 - Purchased from K.C. Canary (HRT) in Fultonville, NY

    Default Re: Mule or Ranger (diesel or Gas)?

    Wow... what have I started? Thanks for all of the comments I have gotten a real education and many points were brought out that I didn't even think of... thanks for all of your imputs.

    The first thing I did notice was the noise, the second was the vibration (lots)! Funny I love the sound and, to a point, the smell of diesel but (heres that but again) I'm not sure my wife does!
    One thing that I obviously wasn't clear on is that the diesel is $200 cheaper than the gas!

    Does that change anyones mind?

    Decisions, Decisions, Decisions!
    After asking around some more there are also pros and cons on the approach each takes with their 4WD systems... More decisions!
    Bed materials... release mechanizms... etc. both have their pros and cons (and I thought this was going to be easy!)

    I like both vehicles could live with either... Maybe I'll let the wife decide(sic)?

    Thanks again for all of your help (I think)!

    I'll let you know what we end up with.

  9. #19
    Platinum Member Devildog's Avatar
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    Luray, VA
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    Kubota B2630

    Default Re: Mule or Ranger (diesel or Gas)?

    Jim,
    Usually the diesel option is more expensive, But from my experience is best to listen to the Wife[img]/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif[/img][img]/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif[/img]
    _________________________________________
    Take care, Jim

  10. #20
    Gold Member JC4HD's Avatar
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    Live in Lower Hudson Valley Tractor used mostly in Central NY
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    Sold the 4310 downsized to a JD 2320 - Purchased from K.C. Canary (HRT) in Fultonville, NY

    Default Re: Mule or Ranger (diesel or Gas)?

    Probably the best advise of all! [img]/w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif[/img]

    Thanks!

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