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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Purchase Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by chh
    Your on the right track with paying cash. I do not finance anything anymore. If I can't pay cash I can't afford it.
    Well said.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Purchase Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by chh
    My personal choice is to stick to all mainstream brands do to the fact that I trade tractors often enough that resale is an important issue to me. (Skip blasting me about Mahindra going the be #1 someday, I've heard it all before and I'm not knocking them except on resale)
    I strongly agree with this. I suggest you go take a look at the kubota's, especially in this size machine. I've purchased an off brand tractor before and got burned 15 years later when I couldn't find parts for it. Mahindra might be #1 some day and good for them if they are, I'll consider purchasing one of their products when that time comes. Right now they might make fine tractors but they're a second tier player with a substandard dealer network and parts support. A Mahindra would have to be priced considerably less than a comparable Kubota to warrant consideration in my opinion. A couple of grand isn't going to do, it would have to be much cheaper to make up for the risk you'll be assuming by buying from a company without a stable parts/dealer network. You mentioned Deere being priced too high, yet they sell a lot of tractors. The reason for this is they are established and reliable. If your machine breaks down (they all break sooner or later) Deere will have you up and running in a very short time, guaranteed. Caterpillar is the same in construction equipment, their machines are priced high but you get reliability and if it breaks it WILL be fixed quickly. This is critical for farmers and other commercial operators who must have their machinery running when the job is there. You've already stated that you don't trust the Mahindra dealership and their credit dept. has jerked you around. I'd be done with them already. In my opinion there's really no good reason to go outside of John Deere, Kubota, Massey Ferguson, or Case/New Holland when purchasing a tractor. These are the first tier companies and what sets them apart from the others are their vast dealer and parts networks. If you need something for one of their tractors it's most likely in a warehouse within 200 miles of you and can be there within 24 hours. Need something for a Mahindra, Kioti, or Branson? Good luck. Stick with the first tier brands, you'll be glad you did in the long run.

  3. #23
    Veteran Member chh's Avatar
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    MF 596 , MF 4243, MF 1433V, D4H, D3C

    Default Re: Purchase Dilemma

    As part of the "sales" game check the price of the tractor if financed and for cash. You might be suprised how much more the financed price is than the cash price. Many times 0% isn't free. The last tractor I purchased, a MF 596, the difference was $1500 between cash and low interest financing.
    Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
    Will Rogers

    The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale and pays the freight both ways.
    John F. Kennedy

  4. #24
    Super Star Member IslandTractor's Avatar
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    2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH

    Default Re: Purchase Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryCrowell
    . In my opinion there's really no good reason to go outside of John Deere, kubota, Massey Ferguson, or Case/New Holland when purchasing a tractor. These are the first tier companies and what sets them apart from the others are their vast dealer and parts networks. If you need something for one of their tractors it's most likely in a warehouse within 200 miles of you and can be there within 24 hours. Need something for a Mahindra, Kioti, or Branson? Good luck. Stick with the first tier brands, you'll be glad you did in the long run.
    Here is one good reason: $$$$$. I could have paid $5000-7000 more for the same functionality on a 40hp tractor by buying JD or Kubota instead of Kioti. That's at least one very good reason. You can buy the JD/Kubota or get a Kioti/Mahindra and for the same total outlay have a tractor, a mower or two, a grapple and a couple of other implements that will help you get your work done a lot more efficiently.

    Another: Kioti and Mahindra are actually doing better than at least MF in the CUT dept. How long will MF bother to carry CUTs and their parts if Kioti and Mahindra win their business. JD and NH are not going to go away but they are dependent on other companies for the parts to almost all their CUTs so I would not say that is the most reliable parts chain system in the world. Kubota has an advantage in this department over all others I agree.

    Another: With UPS virtually any tractor part anywhere in the country can be at your doorstep in a couple of days. Kioti and Mahindra are pretty well established today just like Subaru, Hyundai, Nissan etc. Buying from Ford or GM is no guarranty that the part will be any more available today or tomorrow.

    Another: Kioti has a 4 year warranty. Who else does? Not JD, Not Kubota, Not NH. That is worth something extra and should be part of the equation for almost any buyer.

    Another: You certainly have to pick who you think will do well but I for one would choose a Hyundai car over a GM or Ford these days for value. Point being that new comers to the market do not all fail and one can distinguish between cheapo imports like a Belarus, Yugo and some current Chinese tractors imported by marketing firms versus a newish entry into the market by a quality well organized company. Mahindra ain't gonna disappear. I'm happy with Kioti in that regard too. I agree you need to pick and choose when straying from the big three but it's possible to pick up and coming companies without significant risk. Honda, Toyota etc were once fringe companies in the US too.

    JD and Kubota (maybe NH too) deserve their big market shares because they put out fine premium price products. They also charge a lot and have therefore created a viable market for other companies to come in as value brands. A well organized value brand company can do very well in the US market as Costco, Walmart etc have shown us while established "big three" brands like Macy's, Sears and other traditonal retailers sometimes have fared poorly.

    So, I certainly respect the products of the big three but I think it is simplistic to just tell people to stay away from anything else. We'd all still be driving Chevy Novas and Ford Pintos, maybe even AMC Gremlins, if that was the case in the auto industry. Competition from the value brands gives people a viable alternative and if you have the confidence to pick and choose you can save a bundle.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Purchase Dilemma

    I have recommended both Kioti, and Mahindra tractors to some users in some applications. In the smaller sizes, they have strong loaders, and backhoes available, and I will agree that one can buy either as a TLB setup somewhat cheaper than an equivalant kubota. As pulling tractors, both are good too, and I am happy to suggest them for creating landscaping, etc. If you want other things like front mounted implements, mid mount implements, or even backhoes that mount very easily, and take little storage space, the Kubota will win, and the JD / NH will come very close. For all around use for the average landowner, these things can be important, and I still favor the Kubota in particular for those considerations. In my area, there is no price advantage for either when pricing just tractor / fel combinations. Kioti just decided to drop the mmm they offered, so good luck if you have a tractor already and were thinking about one for example. Mahindra offers one, but most dealers admit that it isn't something you want to R/R very often. All are very good tractors, but are but another example why it is important to understand what you are trying to accomplish, and what your needs are actually going to be.
    B2620,Loaded R-4's , Wallenstein BX42 chipper, Bush Hog SQ148 RC, 4' x 8' chain harrow, Blizzard 54" 3PT snowblower, Tirechains. com v-bar duo grip chains (hate them), Simplicity Legacy with 48"mmm, turbo collector, Country Line carry all, Countryline Middlebuster, Woods 48" BB, Kubota QA for loader, Kubota forks, Kuhn EL23 rototiller, and more to come...

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Purchase Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by wvtechs
    The way I see it is simple. If Agricredit (or any other lending institution) doesn't think I am trustworthy enough to pay them back, I am quite happy to pay cash and pay myself the interest that I would have been paying to them. In fact, before I got the "itch" to buy a tractor, I had always insisted on paying cash for everything.
    But with 0% interest on terms of three to four years, by paying cash you can actually lose money.

    If you do a pure cash deal, you lose out on the interest the bank/market would have paid you for your money. And you gain nothing from the tractor company offering to lend you money interest-free.

    Let's say you do 0% financing for four years on a $30,000 tractor. Here's why it's worse to do a cash deal:

    - You immediately lose access to $30k of cash today
    - Because you've lost that cash, you can't earn an interest on that $30k cash. You could have kept that $30k in the bank for the four years, using it to make payments. Every month you would earn interest on it
    - The company doesn't lend you $30k, interest-free (you can't get that kind of a deal anywhere).

    Sure, it's nice to say the tractor is yours, but the interest you can earn over four years will help offset the depreciation cost of the tractor if you bought with cash. Just a thought!

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Purchase Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Negligence
    Sure, it's nice to say the tractor is yours, but the interest you can earn over four years will help offset the depreciation cost of the tractor if you bought with cash. Just a thought!
    Saying the tractor is mine is the only reason I need to pay cash and any interest I earned on that money would be offset by the interest I had to pay to the financing company unless I invested the money in high-risk accounts which could mean that I would lose all the money plus have to pay interest.

    Depreciation is not a concern for me because I plan to keep the tractor I purchase for a very long time. Durability and long-term parts availability are my biggest concerns aside from the initial cost.

    0% interest is just a gimmick to get people to go to the dealerships. Not many people have good enough credit to qualify for 0% interest and the lenders know it.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Purchase Dilemma

    I can't speak for the other brands, but I believe both Case and kubota will finance you, somewhat regardless of credit, if you give them a larger down payment. At least in Canada. The idea there is you put your application through at 10% down, 15% , then 20% down, etc., until you get approved.

    Either way you look at it, the 0% financing is better than a cash deal unless you sleep on top of piles of money surrounded by beautiful ladies. You did say it would eat into the security of your savings, and to me that's a stoplight. I wouldn't run from financing just because you got denied. Offer a larger down payment and try again, or try another manufacturer.

  9. #29
    Veteran Member bandit67's Avatar
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    Foothills, Colorado
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    B3000 HSDCC

    Default Re: Purchase Dilemma

    I agree with taking advantage of the financing if it is offered - Negligence makes some excellent points. Also, not all manufacturers give different pricing for cash vs. financing.

    As for the lesser known brands, it's a crap shoot. Kioti has been in this country for at least 20 years, but they still have a rather poor market share in this country. They've got some great features. But they aren't built with heavier materials strictly in the interest of being good at ground engaging work, it's because it's cheaper than going with higher quality, stronger, lighter metals. They have to offer a 4 year warranty - not because they believe in their product more than the other manufacturers do, but because they are trying to increase market share.

    None of these smaller market share companies can be compared to kubota. For example, when folks say remember when Kubota started out - look what they've done. Kubota is where it is today because it broke into a market with a niche product and basically made the small compact market what it is today. And along the way, corporate invested in dealerships across the country to grow their market share. Kioti certainly doesn't seem to have done that, as there are still areas of the country that you find only a scattering of dealers that price the Kioti's at or above the better established competition.

    Mahindra is another company that hasn't invested in establishing it's market share. There are states with not even ONE Mahindra dealer. Mahindra, Kioti, and the other 'lesser known' brands aren't creating a market where there existed none or very little before, but are simply trying to 'get in on' an established market, and there lies the reason that most of those companies will never have a huge market share.

    And if there are folks in some parts of the country getting great deals on the lesser known brands, then when other folks are finding significantly higher prices for the same machines, then someone is getting ripped off. You can't tell me it costs Kioti, for example, an additional $5k per machine to send a trailer load across the country.

    Out here in the west, you'd expect to see only JD, CNH, Massey. But there are tons of Kubotas because they've done a great job marketing and selling quality machines. I just don't see Mahindra, Kioti, or many of the other lesser known brands putting forth the effort needed to significantly grow their market share throughout the entire country. Kubota's been in the US for what, 15 years longer than Kioti?

    If there is going to be an up-and-coming market leader in the tractor world in the future, I think that company will need to establish a new niche to take the market by storm. For those that also mention what Toyota's done, well, they pretty much created a niche too, and it was rough going for a lot of years, but now look at where they are. You can't break into an established market with the same-ole-same-ole, and expect to make a significant impact. You also can't act like you don't need all the customers that come through the door, and turn away someone who is ready to buy without even trying, like in wvtechs case.
    2012 Kubota B3000, block heater, filled rears, rear wheel spacers, fender extensions, LA403 w/60" bucket, BH77 w/12" bucket & mechanical thumb, Kubota pin-type QA, Kubota forks, Caroni TM1600 flail, Buhler Allied YC6010 3pt blower, Meyer 72" FEL mounted plow, Midwest LR2072 rake



    Previous machines:

    2008 Kubota B3030 (Open Station), LA403, BH75, 4 - 55w halogen front & rear ROPS mounted worklights with L39 dash switches
    2004 Case NH DX24E Subcompact

    Kubotas from Barlow's

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Purchase Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Negligence
    Either way you look at it, the 0% financing is better than a cash deal unless you sleep on top of piles of money surrounded by beautiful ladies. You did say it would eat into the security of your savings, and to me that's a stoplight. I wouldn't run from financing just because you got denied. Offer a larger down payment and try again, or try another manufacturer.
    I still believe that cash is better than financing, even at 0%.

    It would eat into the security of my savings if I bought it and paid cash now but in a few months things will be different.

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