Bobcat CT120 vs Deere 2305

[mark.r]

Originally Posted by ByTheLake

Jim,

I see you have a Kioti tractor.
How long have you had it and would you buy another?

So Bobcat and Kioti are the exact same machine other than paint scheme?

Loader is different. Bobcat uses a Rhino loader I believe. Also I would be shocked to see Bobcat build the larger models, anything larger than the DK45 would shock me . . . if indeed they go that large. That would put them in the AG market and I just don't see it.

[Dmace]

Originally Posted by ByTheLake

So Bobcat and Kioti are the exact same machine other than paint scheme?

The tractor is the same but the attachments (loader & backhoe) are different. Rhino loaders and I don't know who makes the backhoe. Also, I beleive the Rhino loaders have less lift capacities than the Kioti loaders.

[crabjoe]

Originally Posted by Raptor53

Well I looked at a lot of tractor brands over the last year, and IMO, I came to the following conclusions:

Highest quality = Deere

Best ergonomics = Deere

Highest resale value (not that I plan on ever selling my tractor) = Deere

Best parts availability = Deere

Best dealer network = Deere

You sure about "Best parts availability?"

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/j...-way-move.html

Based on the guy's signature, it's a '95 and he can't get a steering arm for it.

[Gittyup]

Originally Posted by ByTheLake

So horse power is not a factor when comparing tractors?

From what i understand, Bobcat released their first couple of models this past fall and will be releasing several more compacts in 2008 (hopefully b-4 summer is over). For a total of 9.

Of course HP is a factor when buying a tractor. But, today marketeers use it hype up a tractor, like most of the cheap riders you can buy today. Years ago, before all this hype, most lawn tractors were 10 - 12 HP. Those old "low horse power" machines will out perform most of todays 18 - 24 HP machines. It's not just about HP, but how it's applied.

For CUTS (CT120) and subCuts (2305), the HP is only part of the equation. The real business end of these is the tranny and the hydraulics. That is why it is important to look at all the specifications, AND TO DRIVE THEM. You may find that while the CT120 is "more tractor", it may be more than you want and you like the smaller size of the 2305. Or you find just the opposite. The point is that these two tractors are really two different beasts altogether. The 2305 is more in line with the Kubota BX's, and other subcuts offered by New Holland, Massey, and the like. I'm not sure Deere really has a machine right now in a new model that is directly comparable to the CT120.

All of these machines are quality products. So, then it's not unlike buying a Chevy versus a Ford - personal preference. But, you must drive them, and study the specs so that you can make the best informed decision for YOU. Having said this, buy a bit bigger than you think you need. Don't buy too small and then regret it, regardless of color.

[IXLR8]

BTL- I bought it used, I have only had it a few months. So far it has done all I have asked of it. The loaded rear tires do add enough extra weight so I need to be a little mindful of how dry the lawn is before I go across it. The Kioti is a heavy machine, the loaded tires just make it that much heavier. If you are looking for a machine to mow with, or spend lots of time on your lawn... it might be too heavy for that, a Kubota or JD would be better. I didn't like the ergonomics of the Kubota, otherwise I probably would have gone with the Kubota. I did get the Kioti cheaper than I would have gotten the Kubota, but Kubota has a very good dealer 10 miles away. My nearest dealer is 55 miles away and is not rumored to be the best. So far I have not needed a dealer so no issue. There are also lots of great online dealers ready to help, one even on Sunday's. The Bobcat is a Kioti machine, same assembly line, different color, different loader. I am guessing Bobcat is using a different loader to not associate themselves with the issue that Kioti had with cracking loaders on the smaller machines, CK20-35, until they redesigned the loaders. The only item that needs to be addressed on my machine is the backhoe was used heavily and one of the hoses has some wear on it from rubbing on the boom where it goes inside the boom and I should replace it in the next few months. The Kioti does have some features as standard that are options on other machines, which helps to add value to the machine. The JD machines do have features that make adding/removing implements easier.. but at a large cost. I still check out other machines and I have not found one that I like better, or a better value than the Kioti. It fits ME well, it might not fit YOU. You do need to go try out as many different tractors as you can, even ones you have no interest in. You might find some feature that you really like, or dislike. That is where I found what machines fit me best and the ones that just didn't work for me ergonomically. You need to find which one you are comfortable with as YOU will be the one to spend lots of time in the seat.
HTH

[AchingBack]

Originally Posted by ByTheLake

So horse power is not a factor when comparing tractors?

From what i understand, Bobcat released their first couple of models this past fall and will be releasing several more compacts in 2008 (hopefully b-4 summer is over). For a total of 9.

Here is my limited understanding of how in some cases, horsepower might not be as much of a factor. A tractor's main job is pulling. It takes traction in order for the tractor to move. A light weight tractor with 25 horsepower, has less traction than a heavier tractor with identical horsepower. Overall, the heavier tractor is getting more out of its horses.

So, when comparing models you may find weight to be a bigger advantage.

[LAWALLSTRACTOR]

I'm sorry if I misled you a bit, but I got you thinking. In general what I was trying to get accross was that for the loader and ground engagement work that you are planning on doing, the heaver tractor (Bobcat Kioti) will out do the lighter tractor even with more HP. Be sure you compare your lift capacities and lift capacities, as more will make your tractor more efficient and useful.
While I am here, I will suggest you check out the Mahindra 2415 or 2516 tractors, as the 0% for 60 month financing makes it an attractive bargain. Very nice tractor for the money.

[Farmwithjunk]

Originally Posted by mark.r

Loader is different. Bobcat uses a Rhino loader I believe. Also I would be shocked to see Bobcat build the larger models, anything larger than the DK45 would shock me . . . if indeed they go that large. That would put them in the AG market and I just don't see it.

Bobcat is targeting the industrial tractor market, not the ag world. Anyone who's trying to garner a piece of the industrial tractor pie is competing with Caterpillar/Challenger and Deere for the most part. As an example, Deere is just now releasing an 85 HP small-framed tractor/loader w/3-point hitch based on the 110 loader/backhoe chassis. There's a lot of use for tractors above 45 hp in the construction world. It wouldn't be a stretch at all to see a Bobcat model well above 45 hp.

In the construction industry, it's VERY common to see equipment leased. Bobcat has a successful lease program. I'd suspect they'll put quite a few of their "new" tractors in the field through that avenue.

[mark.r]

Originally Posted by Farmwithjunk

Bobcat is targeting the industrial tractor market, not the ag world. Anyone who's trying to garner a piece of the industrial tractor pie is competing with Caterpillar/Challenger and Deere for the most part. As an example, Deere is just now releasing an 85 HP small-framed tractor/loader w/3-point hitch based on the 110 loader/backhoe chassis. There's a lot of use for tractors above 45 hp in the construction world. It wouldn't be a stretch at all to see a Bobcat model well above 45 hp.

In the construction industry, it's VERY common to see equipment leased. Bobcat has a successful lease program. I'd suspect they'll put quite a few of their "new" tractors in the field through that avenue.

That makes sense. So are you saying to expect a white/red DK55/65 clone? Or something built using them as a basis? I call the DK55/65/90 AG tractors and I don't see them being used in the Industrial world without modification to make them "industrial" ready. However, if Bobcat is going to use them as a starting point to build there own higher hp industrial range, that make sense.

[daTeacha]

In all this, I see very little mention of the features that seemed big when I was shopping. The proximity and quality of the dealer are important, of course, but other factors that I tossed around before settling on the Case included:

Transmission controls -- Deere made a big deal over their 2 pedal HST versus the rocker pedal

Seat -- size, height, adjustability, angle, etc. Kubota seats made me feel like I was falling forward off the seat. Kioti made me feel like I was standing up. Deere had the highest back, good some of the time, bad other times as when looking behind the tractor. CNH had a good firm seat, tough cover, and it pivots.

Loader controls -- how far do you need to reach when operating the thing?

Overall height -- the Kubota and Deere ROPS in my size machine were sufficiently high that I would be constantly lowering them to get the tractor in the garage/shop door. With the Case, I had to crank a couple of extra turns into the spring to raise the door a little higher, but it fits.

Reachable service items -- fule filler, filters, dipsticks, radiator, etc. With and without the loader in place.

Vulnerabilty of hoses, wires, etc. on the belly of the machine. Several brands have the fuel filter hanging so low I just knew I would break it off on a log or rock running around in my woods. Ditto hydraulic hoses.

Know how and where you will use the tractor, then look it over for things that might be damaged during use. Sit the seats and reach for the controls you will use a lot. Measure the height and width of the openings you need to drive through. Prioritize your uses literally, on paper, giving a value to each. Then go sit, drive, talk, look, walk around the dealership, etc.

For me, it was pretty much up in the air between Kubota, Deere, CNH after eliminating several others for various reasons ranging from dealer location to perceived weakness of design for my use. I finally decided on a machine after visiting a dealer and being treated very graciously by a guy who sold 3 brands with no personal bias toward any of them. He told me the Kubota would be excellent, the Case maybe not quite so good, and the Cadet less so. Even with that, he owned and drove Case for his personal uses. I sat, measured, drove, and chose the Case. No complaints in 300 hours.