What to but hydo, shuttle or gear

[Soundguy]

About the same here too.... You can usually buy a non-runner 800, THE ENTIRE TRACTOR, transmission included for far less than $2500 (+$500 core)

Comparing apples to apples though, the 3 types of trannies for the same "species" of tractor, in late model form, the cost NEW is probably roughly the same. Most rental shops around here have hydros, claiming they're less likely to get torn up by a less than experienced operator. Not sure about that one either.

Yep.. 2500$ buys an average 8n, 600/800 in running condition around here...

I'd never pay 2500$ for just the trans... I'd buy a non runner part machine for less than half that.. rip the trans out.. save any other goodies I wanted.. then part the rest... and maybee come close to breaking even if I didn't keep too much of the tractor in my barn.... could 'scrap-out' the old shelled tranny casting if it was noo good.. and salvage any good gears left in it... etc.

soundguy

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

Most rental shops around here have hydros, claiming they're less likely to get torn up by a less than experienced operator. Not sure about that one either.

Makes sense to me. Can't toast a clutch or grind gears if there aren't any.

 

[RobJ]

Makes sense to me. Can't toast a clutch or grind gears if there aren't any.

... if there is a will there is a way!! It is after all...a "rental"!

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Makes sense to me. Can't toast a clutch or grind gears if there aren't any.

I'm sure that's the thinking, but I'm at odds with the idea that a hydro is any safer in the hands of an inexperienced "rental rocket" operator. Afterall, hydros have their limits too. A seamingly "easy to operate" fast cycling transmission might promote harder use. All I am sure of is, I'm glad none of my tractors get rented out to whoever wants to take a crack at them.

 

[john_bud]

Man.. they must see you coming.. you are getting ripped!!

Down here entire 4spd assemblies from the 8n, 6xx/8xx go for about 500$.. heck.. an 8spd from a 5000 can be had in the 1000-2500$ range!!!


soundguy

Tell ME all about it! I about left a brown stain on the floor when they told me that. After calling around, that is the going rate. Ouch. It's also why I drove 300 miles to get a replacement case!



Jinman, Sorry. It's my background as both an engineer and 6 sigma. Data rules. I reflected that my data may have been out of date, so I used the online systems to try and find comparison costs. It would be a better comparison to look at a whole gear transmission, GST and HST replacement costs --> but I couldn't find those assembly part numbers. You have to know what you are looking for to be able to look for it.



Farmwithjunk, We are in complete agreement. It would be instructive to see the expected life of the entire transmission + consumables. My research a few years back was that a HST clutch would last the life of the tractor, a GST would last nearly that long, but a real gear transmission would eat 3 or more clutch / P Plate sets over it's life. That's from a 10k hour tractor life and a 3-4k hour clutch life average. A loader tractor's clutch is 1/2 of that. Again, old data from limited sources. So the real cost of a "cheaper" gear tractor is likely to be $4-8000 more than a HST when you factor in the costs of the replacement clutches. Obviously less out of pocket, if you do the labor.

jb

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Tell ME all about it! I about left a brown stain on the floor when they told me that. After calling around, that is the going rate. Ouch. It's also why I drove 300 miles to get a replacement case!



Jinman, Sorry. It's my background as both an engineer and 6 sigma. Data rules. I reflected that my data may have been out of date, so I used the online systems to try and find comparison costs. It would be a better comparison to look at a whole gear transmission, GST and HST replacement costs --> but I couldn't find those assembly part numbers. You have to know what you are looking for to be able to look for it.



Farmwithjunk, We are in complete agreement. It would be instructive to see the expected life of the entire transmission + consumables. My research a few years back was that a HST clutch would last the life of the tractor, a GST would last nearly that long, but a real gear transmission would eat 3 or more clutch / P Plate sets over it's life. That's from a 10k hour tractor life and a 3-4k hour clutch life average. A loader tractor's clutch is 1/2 of that. Again, old data from limited sources. So the real cost of a "cheaper" gear tractor is likely to be $4-8000 more than a HST when you factor in the costs of the replacement clutches. Obviously less out of pocket, if you do the labor.

jb

I'd say your numbers would represent a "worst case scenario". Not likely to be THAT bad on average. And then there's a human factor to be accounted for. Some people are harder on equipment than others.....Some much easier. I've owned 3 tractors for long periods of time. All three are (were) gear/clutch models. All three spent most of their lives being used on a farm. The MF150 is 37-1/2 years young, used hard at times, and still on the original clutch. My Deere 2440 is on clutch #1. It's seen 29 years of plowing, discing, pulling loaded gravity wagons, ect. A tractor I sold 3 years ago, a Ford 3000 gasser, had a loader on it all it's life, (33 years with me) and spent much of its life wallowing in a manure pile. Just about the only thing NOT trashed on it was the ORIGINAL clutch. (front end/steering and engine were at death's door though) Factor in all three got a fair dose of my once TEEN AGED SON.

Point is, a rental tractor might get the clutch hammered out of it in quick fashion because of the increased likelyhood of use by poor and/or inexperienced operators. But all in all, I think a "personally owned" gear/clutch tractor, in the hands of a competent operator, has a much better chance of survival than some think. I honestly believe the predicted demise of clutch/pressure plate/ect is much exagerated in most cases.

And my experience may well represent a "best case scenario".

By the same token, a hydro equipped tractor under the control of a "maniac operator" is as vulnerable as any other type.

It's all about that loose nut holding the steering wheel................

 

[Soundguy]

I'm sure that's the thinking, but I'm at odds with the idea that a hydro is any safer in the hands of an inexperienced "rental rocket" operator. Afterall, hydros have their limits too. A seamingly "easy to operate" fast cycling transmission might promote harder use. All I am sure of is, I'm glad none of my tractors get rented out to whoever wants to take a crack at them.

The old addage.. "treat it like it's rented equipment" comes to mind.

For the same reasons you mention.. if we rent out any equipment.. it is always 'with operator'.. otherwise they come back with low oil.. and no grease in the joints.. gas in diesel tanks.. deisel in gas tanks.. any oil on hand in every sump.. etc..

soundguy

 

[Farmwithjunk]

The old addage.. "treat it like it's rented equipment" comes to mind.

For the same reasons you mention.. if we rent out any equipment.. it is always 'with operator'.. otherwise they come back with low oil.. and no grease in the joints.. gas in diesel tanks.. deisel in gas tanks.. any oil on hand in every sump.. etc..

soundguy

The contractor I work for "rents" equipment to individual jobs. Rental fees include operator, maint., and hauling. In the case of some specialty equipment we rent, then sub-lease to the job. In as many cases as we can, we keep a dedicated operator on each piece of equipment. Random "operator by committee" usually results in short lifespan.

I've adopted a similar stratagy with my mowing rigs. I try to keep operators on "their own" tractor. They take pride in keeping their tractor out of the shop. As I need to hire more operators who AREN'T family, (with a vested interest) this becomes more important.

With rented equipment, even safe, dependable, competent operators, they'll run the Bejesus out of 'em just 'cause they can.

It's a well documented fact that a piece of equipment ran ONLY by the owner (who has to PAY FOR damages) will far outlast any that have a revolving door operator station.

 

[Soundguy]

Yep.. I'm also a fan of keeping a person with 'their' piece of equipment.

true story here.. About 20ys ago, the GC I work for ( I had just started then ) bought a 60's era cat 623B scraper pan from another contractor... That pan had been run by the same operator, and only that operator every day it ran, since it was new... as part of the 'deal'.. we hired the old man when we bought the pan.. and let him run it exclusively till he retired about 5-6 ys ago... Out of all our equipment, looking back at the cost of operation.. that 623 pan, and the company owners 'personal' JD 2240 tractor were always in the shop the least.. and had less repairs on them.

soundguy

The contractor I work for "rents" equipment to individual jobs. Rental fees include operator, maint., and hauling. In the case of some specialty equipment we rent, then sub-lease to the job. In as many cases as we can, we keep a dedicated operator on each piece of equipment. Random "operator by committee" usually results in short lifespan.

I've adopted a similar stratagy with my mowing rigs. I try to keep operators on "their own" tractor. They take pride in keeping their tractor out of the shop. As I need to hire more operators who AREN'T family, (with a vested interest) this becomes more important.

With rented equipment, even safe, dependable, competent operators, they'll run the Bejesus out of 'em just 'cause they can.

It's a well documented fact that a piece of equipment ran ONLY by the owner (who has to PAY FOR damages) will far outlast any that have a revolving door operator station.

 

[john_bud]

It's all about that loose nut holding the steering wheel................

Amen to that!

jb