What's the smallest practical HP/Tractor you'd consider?

[IslandTractor]

I agree with Pat. I'd certainly be happy to take on the tasks listed with my 40hp Kioti too.

One point to remember is that the OP doesn't really have much of an operation now and that he is just thinking through the issues of starting up what I imagine is a fairly small cattle operation. He definitely indicated that he does not have a 100 acre farm but rather 100 acres of land some of which he hopes to turn into a cattle operation. He doesn't say anything about a big commercial operation and I doubt you'd raise too many cattle on that size farm by yourself. I think that some of the well intentioned 70+hp recommendations are based on the assumption that this is a 100 acre working farm with lots of plowing etc etc.

Regarding Slowzuki's concern, I'm not sure that there are any 40hp tractors on the market that weigh LESS than Pat's Kubota. Kubota's are known for being generally lighter than other tractor brands in similar HP ranges. Certainly if you look at other imports in this size like Mahindra, Kioti the Kubota is the svelt one. I'm not sure but I think the JDs and NH in this HP range are either heavier or the same as the Kubota too. If properly ballasted and equipped with a grapple or hay spear I would imagine any of the currently available CUTs that size could safely handle a 1000lb hay bale.

 

[slowzuki]

Island tractor, my guess is based on my L5030HSTC weighing in at over 6500 lb, and it would weigh almost the same if it was a L4330HSTC setup the same. My friend has a 40 hp JD that only weighs about 3000 lbs and looks like an overgrown lawnmower. Kubota makes some little ones like the L4400 I think too. Quite light.

I think the DK-40 or whatever the similar Kioti is weighs similar to the 30 series.

 

[Egon]

As for the DEFINITELY OVER 40HP camp, maybe some of you guys can explain the miracle of my success with less than 40 HP

Pat; there was a time in some places where a 40 Hp. tractor was considered quite sufficient for farming 320 acres or so for one man. This would include tillage,seeding, haying, harvesting and all those other good things that need be done on a working farm. Seems like there would have been more time back then??

Today, time or the cost of time seems important and when that happens larger sounds better as it would appear more production is available per man hour. It turns into an exponential escalating type situation that for many runs amok.

Somehow a workable financial plan has to be involved with the production possible plan.

 

[Soundguy]

As for the DEFINITELY OVER 40HP camp, maybe some of you guys can explain the miracle of my success with less than 40 HP (not much, just a little less.) Especially consider that I am not a tractor operating virtuoso and yet somehow with a too small and way under powered tractor I manage to do all that I do on my 160 acres Of those recommending DEFINITELY over 40 HP, how many have owned or operated a tractor comparable to mine and what were its major shortcomings that prevent recommending it?
Pat

I think yuo may be reading words that aren't there.

I don't recall many messages saying under 'x' hp could not do the work, or was not possible.

I DID see lots of comments saying people would nod try it or consider it under X hp.

Statistically... I have a chance at crossing the ocean in a rowboat... but.. I'm going to take aan ocean liner instead.

I used to mow my pasture with a 5' mower and eat most of a day doing so.. as someone pointed out.. my times worth alot to me.. thus i traded up to a 15' mower and now get that same job done about the same time many people are finishing breakfast!

You -could- scrub 3K square foot of tile with a toothbrush.. but I wouldn't consider doing it with anything smaller than a good sized push mop!

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

I agree with Pat. I'd certainly be happy to take on the tasks listed with my 40hp Kioti too.

.

I'd also say this has alot of hammer/nail connotations to it.

If I come across a job.. and only have a hammer.. lots of problems look like nails.

If I have a 40hp tractor, and a job comes up that it will do.. perhaps not ideally.. but still safely.. I'll do it.

If I'm in the planning stages of that same job.. I might just buy bigger equipemtn to start with.

IE.. if I'm gonna be using alot of big NAILS.. i'll get a bigger hammer..

A bigger tractor can still get around and do many smaller tasks. I keep my NH 7610s parked on my 3ac parcel near my house.. I -HAVE- used it to mow that parcel.. and/or pull / move stuff.

Not as nimble as my smaller tractors.. but it is far from useless on 'smaller' jobs.

soundguy

 

[patrick_g]

I use my Kubota L5030HSTC for haying both small squares and small rounds on my 30 acres, a neighbours 15 acres, and another neighbours 60 acres.

The big but in here is time. If I didn't work full time the 5030 would be my last tractor, but I'm moving to larger equipment to speed it up.


I plan to move to a 65-90 hp main tractor and have a smaller 2wd as my backup or raking tracter.

I understand exactly what you are saying and it makes perfect sense for you and what you are doing however, the poster whose query started this thread only mentioned handling bales not making them so what you need to do what you do is not applicable to his operation.

Note to sound guy. Your examples are colorful and somewhat amusing but certainly NOT very applicable and are a transparent attempt to make my position seem childish and ridiculous in its divergence from your pontifications. You tend to ignore the fact that I have been using this tractor on these 160 acres in excess of 7 years and have had plenty of time to discover any major shortcomings and to correct them, even if it meant an additional tractor or swapping tractors. I feel the need for neither. I am extremely pleased with my tractor most of the time. It is too big almost as often as it is too small.

I certainly agree with your analysis of your tasks and what equipment you need to do what you want the way you want in the time you want. However, the OP isn't doing what you do and didn't ask for advice in tractor sizing to do what you do. I have been doing what he says he wants to do for over 7 years with my Kubota, am quite successful at it, and suggest he wouldn't need much or even any more tractor to replicate my success. It isn't like I have a misplaced need to save the planet by recommending tractors with tiny low fuel consumption engines. I will be happy for the OP to get a larger tractor than mine whether or not he needs it. I am just supplying a bench mark, tested for over 7 years, doing what he says he wants to do. If I were he, I'd be interested in what people doing what he says he will do are using to do the same job because their experience and recommendations would be applicable.

To return to analogies... It is you who insist on arguing apples to oranges.

I have no negative criticism whatsoever regarding your choices, except... your situation, however skillfully approached with your analysis and equipment acquisitions is not at all like his situation and is not particularly applicable. Of course, you being an intelligent man, your considered input advising what is needed to do the jobs he lists should be carefully considered and given their appropriate weighting.

IslandTractor: Thanks for rendering an opinion that is based on your APPLICABLE experience and correcting some mistaken opinions by those less knowledgeable regarding my tractor. I am told that my model is obsolete and not produced. I'd have to find out what there is similar to it, a Kubota 5000 series maybe, I don't know.

I want to make it clear that 1000 lb + round bale handling can be dangerous and should not be attempted with substandard or insufficient equipment. My tractor is near the low end of what I would feel safe and prudent to use to do the job of stacking 1000 lb round bales three rows high. Similarly transporting a bale on the spike requires you to be mindful of the laws of physics to keep a good margin of safety.

My Kubota can not lift 1000 lbs on the FEL unless there is a significant counter weight on the 3PH as instead you lift the rear tires up into the air. I have 3 sets of cast iron Kubota wheel weights on the rear wheels which is the max recommended. My rear tires are not liquid filled as that practice is prohibited in my cab tractor as per the manual. The wheel weights help for many tasks but don't do squat for lifting loads near the FEL max capability. Either my HD brush hog (I cut 4-5 inch trees) or my HD box blade (6 footer that weighs about 1300 lbs) is used as a counter weight. I prefer the box blade as it does not limit maneuvering so much in close spaces.

Sharp turns, even at super slow speeds, are dangerous with a heavy load on the FEL due to the geometry of wheel position with wheels turned to or near lock. I try to avoid having to make a sharp turn with a bale on the spike unless I have the bale lowered nearly touching the ground so if I tip I can lower the bale and instantly regain stability. Likewise you are much safer driving up or down hill than cross wise to a slope with a heavy load on the FEL.

The OP stated his desire for a bale spear and I previously explained why it is important to have a hay spike with little helper spike(s) below the big one if you will deal with hay piled more than one row high.

I will make a plea here... Do not stack/work round bales using pallet forks. I have been there and done that over the objections of my dealer who warned me. It nearly smashed the heck out of my tractor and could have easily got me killed but I was extremely lucky and the bale just bent the grill guard on the pallet forks back at a 45 degree angle and the bale didn't quite make it through the windshield into my lap. I immediately bought a hay spike and super reinforced the guard on the pallet forks.

Pat

 

[Soundguy]

I understand exactly what you are saying and it makes perfect sense for you and what you are doing however, the poster whose query started this only mentioned handling bales not making them so what you need to do what you do is not applicable to his operation.

Pat.. be reasonable...

No one here is going to have an application that exactly matches the OP's application.. whatever it finally turns out to be.

Thus, as he asked for, we are giving him opinions, and advice based on what we do with ours.

As -every- tractor owner has found.. you rarely use your tractor for -only- the intended tasks you bought the machine for, and instead usually find lots of other uses for it.

There may be a few exceptions to that.. like machines bought for dedicated tasks like mowing.. etc. however in general.. a tractor is like a swiss army knife.. does lots of things.. many of those things you may or may not use.. and may not use them all the time.. nor even use them at the beginning.

soundguy

 

[patrick_g]

Pat.. be reasonable...

No one here is going to have an application that exactly matches the OP's application.. whatever it finally turns out to be.

Thus, as he asked for, we are giving him opinions, and advice based on what we do with ours.

As -every- tractor owner has found.. you rarely use your tractor for -only- the intended tasks you bought the machine for, and instead usually find lots of other uses for it.

There may be a few exceptions to that.. like machines bought for dedicated tasks like mowing.. etc. however in general.. a tractor is like a swiss army knife.. does lots of things.. many of those things you may or may not use.. and may not use them all the time.. nor even use them at the beginning.

soundguy

I have had over 7 years to use my Swiss Army tractor doing what the poster said he wants to do. You are certainly right when you say you find all sorts of additional tasks for your tractor you may not have originally thought of. I have done that too, BIG TIME and am please at how I was able to do them.

You ask me to be reasonable. What is more reasonable than what I have said? The poster's stated intentions are well within what I have been doing for several years. Sure there are lots of other things he will probably want to do to support a small cattle op. I have a small cattle op on 160 acres so it is likely I have been dong most of the things he will want to do but hasn't stated. Right now I have 26 adult Angus (25 female and a bull) and 8 calves and more calves on the way by March as most of my herd are pregnant.

I don't know what someone would have to do to be more similar to his stated activities than I am. I may be larger in land area and more head of stock but that is not a bad thing. If I can easily handle 160 acres and my size cow calf operation with my tractor then my tractor should do most of whatever he will need to do. I fail to see how his and my operations are so different that for fewer cattle and less land he needs significantly more tractor than has proven over 7 years to be just fine.

It is not an ego thing. If he wants a Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor Binford BelchFire 5000 turbo jet powered 10,000 HP with RATO bottle assist super tractor (with chilled beverage holder) that is fine with me. I'm simply pointing out how similar his stated desires are to what I have been doing successfully for over 7 years with a particular tractor. I fail to see how that is being unreasonable. As my model tractor is obsolete he would have to buy a different one but not need in my opinion based on FACT and over 7 years of practice, a lot more size or HP.

Pat

 

[IslandTractor]

(with chilled beverage holder)

Is that available as an aftermarket device or do I need to trade up to a new BelchFire tractor to get one?

 

[patrick_g]

Is that available as an aftermarket device or do I need to trade up to a new BelchFire tractor to get one?

Sorry, I didn't intend to be so non-specific. It isn't a holder for a chilled beverage but it is a beverage holder that chills your beverage.

The Tim Taylor signature model of the Binford BelchFire 5000 is the one with it standard (part of an accessory package upgrade, the one with the JATO/RATO bottle holders and associated control electronics. I suppose you could retrofit one to a lesser model or get some cheap Chinese after market substitute if you don't worry about voiding your warranty.

Pat