Down to two and need advice

[Botabill]

Get the Kubota. Kubota make their machines. Bobcat makes a good skidsteer but is spotty on the other products they make or assemble. Bobcat uses Kubota engines in their excavator and though the engine is good the Bobcat excavator is not well liked otherwise. Could be the same with their tractors... why take a chance?

 

[Rob327]

I might have a look at what I can find locally for flail mowers. I like the idea of the shorter extension compared to an RFM. As quoted the MMM on the CT225 is roughly a $3200 add on because of the mid PTO not being standard. Could definitely save a few bucks there.

I've looked at TYM but I don't think there's any Canadian dealers that aren't a good days drive away. Kioti has a dealership about 2 hrs away so I might check that out this week if I can.. Or at least give them a phone call to see what they have to offer.

As BarryinMN suggested it would be ideal if I could get the Bobcat out to the property to have a look but the dealer is an hour away so I'm not sure how willing he'd be. Going to try tomorrow anyway.

 

[IslandTractor]

As quoted the MMM on the CT225 is roughly a $3200 add on because of the mid PTO not being standard.

Don't bother with local flails. They will all be US made and start at 4K or so. Unfortunately the US flail manufacturers only seem to make heavy duty models that are rock solid but way too expensive for personal use. Check out AgriSupply and the Italian made Caroni flails they carry. They seem to be the largest dealer/importer though I believe there are some independent dealers who carry Caroni as well. Caroni is a fine company that I think is roughly equivalent to Woods, Landpride etc. $2K would get you a TM1900 (75 inch cut) including shipping and I'm sure the six foot (TL1500) would be less. TM is what you will read about mostly on TBN and it is the "bush hog/finish" mower set up. The TL is more of a finish mower.

Here is what a TM looks like projecting from the back on a 40hp tractor:

 

[tractorjackleg]

I have a BX2350 with a 60" mmm and FEL. I haven't quit figured out why people keep pushing the rear finish mowers. I can't imagine mowing my yard with a rear finish mower, I just have to much stuff to mow around

They recommend them because they like Kiotis and I think Kioti either doesn't offer MMMs or they are real hard to come across. Before I upset everybody.. I know that there are benefits to a rear mower. But while you are trying to convince yourself they are so much better go look at similar threads on any forum for brands that offer a MMM and see how many people recommend them over a rear mower.

 

[IslandTractor]

They recommend them because they like Kiotis and I think Kioti either doesn't offer MMMs or they are real hard to come across. Before I upset everybody.. I know that there are benefits to a rear mower. But while you are trying to convince yourself they are so much better go look at similar threads on any forum for brands that offer a MMM and see how many people recommend them over a rear mower.

Fair point and I would agree if the main thing you do with your tractor is mow your yard. Considering flexibility and cost however starts to poke holes in the pro MMM argument. I think it is hard to argue that you would want to be out in fields or rough areas doing chores with a MMM lowering your clearance. As noted earlier they are also much more expensive than 3pt alternatives.

Regarding Kioti....they used to offer a MMM but it was not popular so they dropped it. Perhaps there is self selection involved as few people seem to buy Kioti's if their primary job is lawn mowing. Many BX or B Kubotas and smaller Deeres really are primarily mowing machines so it would make sense that MMMs are most popular with that group.

Again, my earlier post pointed out that if you are really going to be primarily mowing lawns it is hard to beat a BX with a MMM. However if you consider that the OP can get a 27hp CUT with a flail or RFM and a tiller thrown in for the same or less money than a BX with a MMM it shows you how overpriced these SCUTs with MMMs really are.

 

[tractorjackleg]

Fair point and I would agree if the main thing you do with your tractor is mow your yard. Considering flexibility and cost however starts to poke holes in the pro MMM argument. I think it is hard to argue that you would want to be out in fields or rough areas doing chores with a MMM lowering your clearance. As noted earlier they are also much more expensive than 3pt alternatives.

Regarding Kioti....they used to offer a MMM but it was not popular so they dropped it. Perhaps there is self selection involved as few people seem to buy Kioti's if their primary job is lawn mowing. Many BX or B Kubotas and smaller Deeres really are primarily mowing machines so it would make sense that MMMs are most popular with that group.

Again, my earlier post pointed out that if you are really going to be primarily mowing lawns it is hard to beat a BX with a MMM. However if you consider that the OP can get a 27hp CUT with a flail or RFM and a tiller thrown in for the same or less money than a BX with a MMM it shows you how overpriced these SCUTs with MMMs really are.

I can agree with that. And no doubt you can't argue the price factor. It's amazing what they get for some of those MMMs.

 

[Gittyup]

Notwithstanding the cost, the biggest issue with MMM is the difficulty in taking them on/off. Some models do it better than others. If I used the tractor for other chores on a regular basis where the MMM would be in the way, then the design would have to afford on/off in less than 3 minutes with no tools. Otherwise, I'd have to consider other options, like an RFM, or a completely dedicated mower.

Even on my JD, the mower deck attachment is well designed and I can take it off in about 3 minutes and put it back on in about 5 - 7. I still wouldn't want to do it on a regular basis. PITA having to crawl around reaching up under the tractor, rotating gauge wheels, pulling pins, attaching brackets, and drive shaft. I'm fortunate to be able to leave it setup as a mowing machine for the cutting season and have my bigger CUT for other tractor tasks.

Also, if I had a lot of grass to cut (> 3 acres), I'd want the biggest (i.e. fastest) mower I could get. An hour or 2 of mowing is OK. After that it's just plain monatanous. Usually, you can put a bigger RFM on a similar sized tractor than you can a MMM (I think mainly due to availability of big MMMs that fit a particular machine).

 

[Rob327]

I went to see the Bobcat today and I'm really impressed. It seems to be a quality machine with lots of features that really add to it's value.

The deal got even sweeter because he sold the last CT225 off the lot so offered the CT230 in it's place at no extra charge.

I'm still not very interested in an RFM over a MMM but after reading through most of the massive thread on flail mowers I'm really leaning in that direction now. I even watched a few youtube videos and I have to admit the cut is a lot cleaner than I ever would have imagined. The versatility of being able to cut the lawn and heavier brush with the same mower really appeals to me. Giving up a little bit of mobility for the added versatility and cheaper price tag seems like a good trade off.

The Kubota dealer seemed like a pretty nice guy so I'm going to give him the opportunity to either match the machine or lower the price.. Won't hold my breath though.

 

[Rob327]

I'm north of the border so anyone know a dealer in Canada for the Caroni? Or for that matter any reasonably priced brand in Canada?

 

[sevensandeights]

I am also looking at the Bobcat CT225/230. I'm not sure where in Canada you are but I am only 2 hours from Niagara Falls and my local dealer has really good prices right now and they are comparable to the ones you mention. Kioti can't touch the Bobcat tractors currently because both are offering free FEL's but Bobcat's rebate is nearly triple depending on the model so I don't know how much I would look into that brand if overall cost is a major factor.

As I'm sure you know, the Bobcat tractor (not implements though) is 99.5% the same as a Kioti, made in the same factory on the same assembly line. The main difference is the that Kioti uses their own loaders and backhoes whereas Bobcat uses Rhino brand loaders and backhoes. Depending on who you believe (comparing Kioti vs. Bobcat vs. Rhino spec sheets), the Kioti loader/BH has better specs compared to the Rhino but both have significantly more capacity than anything in the BX series.

I don't own either tractor and do not have any seat time in either but my research agrees with most of the opinions above. The BX is a great all around machine that can do some incredible things based on its size. However, the size is also it's limiting factor. The FEL has a capacity closer to 500lbs vs. 1000lbs on the Bobcat and there is minimal ground clearance, especially with a MMM attached. The BX series seem to be made with mowing in mind but can handle a variety of attachments. The Bobcat is a tractor that is designed to be used with various attachments, all of which would be bigger than what a BX could handle (72" rear finish mower, 60" tiller, etc.)

Here's a breakdown of the advertised prices (before tax):

CT122 with FEL, turf tires, and no Mid PTO for $10,675
CT225 with FEL, industrial tires and no Mid PTO for $10,595
CT225 with FEL, industrial tires, Mid PTO, one set of rear remotes for $11,495
CT230 with FEL, industrial tires and no Mid PTO for $11,899
CT230 with FEL, industrial tires, Mid PTO, one set of rear remotes for $12,388

54" MM mower $2395 (this is list price most likely could be negotiated)
72" rear finish mower $2495 (list price also)

If you go with a Landpride rear finish mower and King Cutter tiller you could save close to another $1000 compared to list prices for the Bobcat units.