Bad Oil New Tractor

   / Bad Oil New Tractor #41  
Am going to take a different approach. He says the tractor operates (he has put about 75 hours on it since the green oil was flushed out), but that everything squeals when turning (PTO, clutch, etc.). He has not mentioned having any hydraulic leaks.

Here is my take:
1. A lawsuit is expensive and a major diversion that possibly could take years off one's life through the overall frustration of a long-running process.
2. The dealer is not going to do anything more for this gentleman.
3. The choice I would make is to run the tractor until something breaks. To forestall breaking something and to quiet the squealing, I'd put the best possible hydraulic fluid into the tractor and run it, run it, run it for hundreds of hours. My thinking is the squealing will eventually go away as whatever the greenstuff put on the rotating surfaces slowly gets stripped away through hours of usage.

Kubota tractors are built tougher than their specifications and my guess is your tractor will eventually straighten-up and fly right with another hundred hours on the clock.

I do not own a Kubota and have a question for the group:
Does the PTO have some sort of clutch pack? Does it work in any semblance to the clutches in an anti-slip differential? Anti-slip differentials have special oil to help the clutches "bite". Is the squealing possibly being caused by oil that is precluding the clutches from "biting together"? If so, then it would surely seem the Kubota original specification lubricant would have the necessary additive.

At any rate, if it were me, I would not screw around with lawyers, the store or the dealership because IMHO it is a waste of time and a source of extreme frustration. I'd run the tractor until something broke (but keeping good, fresh oils in it).

Bill in NC
 
   / Bad Oil New Tractor #42  
Here is something found via Google search. It is from a lubricant manufacturer:
"Prolongs Power Take-Off Life

Power Take Offs (PTO's) very often fail to have their clutch plates lock up quick enough to prevent a great deal of slippage. Slippage causes clutch plates to burn up and results in loss of power transmission. There is a performance lock up test called the Stall Test that allows up to 3 seconds before lock up. Texas Refinery Corp.'s UNIVERSAL TORQUE FLUID passes this test with a lock up time of less than 1 second. This fast lock up time reduces clutch wear and prolongs PTO life. Texas Refinery Corp. uses a great deal more of the superior additives to protect PTO's than is necessary to pass equipment manufacturers test."

http://www.texasrefinery.com/lb-universaltorque.htm

Bill in NC
(not affiliated with anybody in the lubricant or tractor business!)
 
   / Bad Oil New Tractor #43  
Yeah but he put bright green oil in his tractor[had to say that one more time]:D

If I bought a bottle of asprins and got them home,opened them up,poured me out some and they was green,wouldn't take any,would probably go back to place I bought them and say heh,looka here,these asprins I bought off you are green,person would say well I be $#%^&^,your right! Let me give your money back and I will contact our supplyer.[or other such story]
 
   / Bad Oil New Tractor #44  
Once again it is ILLEGAL for a manufacturer of ANYTHING to DEMAND you only use their brand. Even the government recognizes the issue. If you can come up with the same SPECIFICATIONS with another maker of the product they CANNOT demand you use ONLY their oil. It is a violation of Fair Trade Laws and is a form or "price fixing". A dealer will tell you that. Ask one. The courts settled that one YEARS AGO.

I am not disputing wether it is legal or not. However, Kubota is not reponsible for your problems because you used an aftermarket oil that was the wrong oil. So because it was packaged wrong it is your problem, not Kubotas. Now if you bought the Kubota oil and it was packaged wrong I bet they would take care of this for you but since you didn't you really have no justification trying to get them or the dealer to fix your tractor for free. Your only recourse is to go after the oil supplier but once again your own mistake played a large role in this. You knew immediately that these two jugs of oil were different and from that moment you should have drained any oil and cleaned the system before ever starting the tractor.

If I recall the parts store gave you 25 gallons to flush your system. It seems to me they did what they could to help you out. Reading your story it sounds like you really don't have too many options. Contact the oil manufacturer and see if they can help you out any but trying to sue everyone would be wrong as Kubota, your dealer and the parts store appear to have done nothing wrong.
 
   / Bad Oil New Tractor #45  
broker than broke - I just read this entire thread in one sitting, so I may have missed what I have been wondering since your first post. Have you contacted the manufacturer of the oil to ask if they make different color fluids? Just curious as to what they say. They may have a known issue with a certain batch and you can work your issue from there.
 
   / Bad Oil New Tractor #46  
*Yep takes the worry out of wondering.

Exactly, even if there is a problem with the oil you have a better claim as it is the OEM oil so they are more willing to take care of the problem. And OEM oils like Motorcraft and New Holland isn't that much more then generics of equal specs.
 
   / Bad Oil New Tractor #47  
The guy that sells the stuff is in the same position as a pharmacist that puts the WRONG medicaine in a pill bottle, it is EXACTLY the same thing.

It is not the same thing and not even close. A pharmacist takes pills from a large bottle and puts them in a smaller bottle and gives them to you. he has to label the bottle himself also. The guy selling the oil gets the jugs from the distributer and doesn't do anything to it before selling it to you more or less untouched. The only similarity is you have to pay for both items:rolleyes:

Once again, you can buy the dealer brand if you want to and pay double if you want to, but ask yourself this, if you bought the DEALER brand and IT WAS MISPACKAGED AND RUINED YOUR MACHINE, HOW WOULD YOU FEEL???

If that happened the dealer would warranty it because it was the OEM oil that was defective. Not an aftermarket oil the "OEM" has no control over.
 
   / Bad Oil New Tractor #48  
I really think that some are pointing the finger at not using the factory brand, and it may very well be made by the same manufacturer as what you used. In fact, you could have bought from the dealer, and it could have been mislabled just as easily. I think your problem in either case is the tracability. Since you do not have the mislabled stuff with the container, you are at a huge disadvantage. Even if you did, it would be difficult to prove for sure that it was the manufacturer's doing. If you had done this all with the dealer's oil, you may very well be in the same pickle. Hindsight is 20/20, but it is easy to look backwards and wish you had done a few things differently. Maybe you would have a stonger case. Maybe you will be successful with the case as it is.
Some people look at the dealer fluids as the holy grail. Gimme a break! Then we start throwing out comparisons to the original purchase price. If you save $50 on a fluid change for the same spec fluid, isn't that still saving $50? Regardless of the original price of the tractor? Keeping careful records and samples (how many of us really do that) could have helped here. Now, if the dealer did it all, then I guess you could wash your hands of it. You put up with a hosing every time you get fluid changed on the rare, outside chance that something like this happens? That's not my style. I just can't believe that folks take this opportunity to rub someones nose in it because he did it himself. If this makes the "dealer service only" crowd sleep better at night, then goodie for them.

If there is a problem with the OEM oil the OEM is responsible for any damages. The OEM has no control over aftermarket oils so if you get a mislabeled oil and put it in your tractor it is no different to the OEM then if you put the wrong oil in knowingly. Kubota can't be responsible for these damages because some other company screwed up.
 
   / Bad Oil New Tractor #49  
Am going to take a different approach. He says the tractor operates (he has put about 75 hours on it since the green oil was flushed out), but that everything squeals when turning (PTO, clutch, etc.). He has not mentioned having any hydraulic leaks.

Here is my take:
1. A lawsuit is expensive and a major diversion that possibly could take years off one's life through the overall frustration of a long-running process.
2. The dealer is not going to do anything more for this gentleman.
3. The choice I would make is to run the tractor until something breaks. To forestall breaking something and to quiet the squealing, I'd put the best possible hydraulic fluid into the tractor and run it, run it, run it for hundreds of hours. My thinking is the squealing will eventually go away as whatever the greenstuff put on the rotating surfaces slowly gets stripped away through hours of usage.

Kubota tractors are built tougher than their specifications and my guess is your tractor will eventually straighten-up and fly right with another hundred hours on the clock.

I do not own a Kubota and have a question for the group:
Does the PTO have some sort of clutch pack? Does it work in any semblance to the clutches in an anti-slip differential? Anti-slip differentials have special oil to help the clutches "bite". Is the squealing possibly being caused by oil that is precluding the clutches from "biting together"? If so, then it would surely seem the Kubota original specification lubricant would have the necessary additive.

At any rate, if it were me, I would not screw around with lawyers, the store or the dealership because IMHO it is a waste of time and a source of extreme frustration. I'd run the tractor until something broke (but keeping good, fresh oils in it).

Bill in NC


I think running it is a foolish thing to do if bearings seize up you could do a lot more damage burnt up shafts,wallowed out main castings,you could end up buying the whole belly of the tractor.
As for the substance you poured in the tractor was the seal on the spout or was it tampered with, could have been a return from another customer.
 
   / Bad Oil New Tractor #50  
Ken, I see your point. But poor ole broker than broke is going to go crazy trying to get these other parties to help him out. They ain't going to do much more than they already have done.

The cheapest attorneys we work with are $200/hour and the better ones are $350/hour. Let's say this situation rambled over three years and ended up being 200 hours at $200/hour of legal time. According to my Elm City, NC High School mathematics training, that would be $40,000. It would also be a whole lot of sleepless nights, internal anger, frustration and probably some serious health consequences along the way, too.

He put green stuff in the tractor. He subsequently replaced the oils. He had the tractor torn apart. It squeals when running the PTO. It probably needs some kind of oil additive to make the PTO clutches lock-up correctly again as they have been likely slicked-up. It is a awful situation to be in but trying to go the legal route is an even worse situation in my humble opinion.

I would call the folks at Texas Refinery (the link above) and ask them what they have seen regarding situations like this where the PTO and other systems squeal. It is quite possible they have seen something like this before and have some suggestions or can direct you to another company that has a solution.

Bill in NC
 
 
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