Unhappy 4115 Owner

[rozett]

<font color=blue>"Feedback in the market place is the only thing manufacturers understand. Too many companies are run by cost accountants that want the product built cheaply and marketing that confuses the buying process with their ads that associate buying with image"</font color=blue>

I think that your first sentence is accurate, but I strongly disagree with the second. I believe that the manufacturers are responding to the marketplace. Take autos for example. Look at the JD Power surveys of quality and you will find cars like the Lexus and Infinity are consistantly on the top of the list. Then way doesn't everyone drive one. One of the major factors is cost. High quality costs more money. Just peruse the entries in this forum... there are many posts discussing buy decisions based on "value for the dollar". Almost no buying decisions are based primarily on product quality. The current marketplace is based more on product cost than on product quality.

I worked in the software industry for 30 years, and the last 10 in Product Quality. We have a saying about software defects. "90% of the cost is finding the last 10% of the defects." If buyers wanted space shuttle quality software, then they would be paying thousands of dollars per line of code.... not the $300 for the million lines of code in Windows.

Many posters to this group have suggested that finding a quality dealer should be the main decision factor. Our tractors are not going to be defect free and we will break them when we use them. So chose your dealer wisely.

//bruce

 

[Kodiak]

Other than a great attitude and forthright effort. Even the best dealer can only offer what support the manufacture allows. They just can't conjure up slow or missing parts from thin air.

 

[Bertilak]

Well, I'm having more problems with the tractor. After operating the tractor for about 8 hours, I'm having trouble getting it to start. This time at least it turns over, but it won't start for some reason.

Looks like I'll be calling the dealer again tomorrow morning to find out what they're going to do about it. I'm quite disgusted with the entire situation and I'm considering returning the machine to the dealer for a refund. I like the machine a lot when it actually runs. I always wanted to buy a Deere--I wonder if my belief that they're the best was misguided. I definately plan to check the Kubotas again this weekend.

Does anyone have experience with the "Deere Promise" (i.e. Deere's policy of issuing a full refund within 30 days if you're not satisfied)?

 

[Hillbilly]

I had a starting problem with mine...JD put a new fuel pump on,3 different solenoids on the fuel pump,the problem would not go away...They finally replaced a resistor in the fuse panel and I have not had a problem since.I had a ton of problems with mine,but JD fixed everyone and I really think the bugs are finally ironed out,my warranty expires in 7 days.
My dealer is good to me and I had a lot of patience with all of my problems.I feel good I have a good relationship with my dealer and I really like my JD 4400.
Sounds to me your starting problem should be an easy fix,its just a matter of tracking it down.

 

[BX22Captain]

I think your going to be surprised when the Dealer tells you that the 30 day promise only applies to the lawn & Garden line, Not the Compacts.

This was an issue for several folks who wanted their money back during the whole, tire scuffing/front axle/bad hydro thrust washer days of the origanal 4000 series line. Most of those folks had to trade their units in on something else.

Hopefully your Dealer will make it right and get you into another machine at no additional cost.

 

[robertm]

Bertilak,
Can't say I know if the Promise applies to anything but the garden tractors, but I will tell you this...
Went thru hoops to try and find a 4010, or even a 4115 to compare to the Kubota B7500. Couldn't find one until yesterday... about three weeks AFTER I bought a Kubouta B7500 w/ 60" MMM and LA272 FEL. I will say with the firmest conviction that I have no, and will have no regrets not finding the Green models and testing them out before I bought Orange. Now let me say that I'm not looking for a big disertation from The Board, but I feel the 4115 is a cheap piece of @#$%& compared to the B7500. The styling is outdated, the floorboards are tinfoil, and it just feels cheap. Another JD dealer tried to sell me an unseen 4010 as an equal to the B7500. Not that dumb, as the 4010 is only a 17hp model. I certainly did wonder if I made the right move. Now I know I did. Check out the B7500 this weekend. I think you will find it much better built than the 4115. Just look at the front axle. The Kub is much beefier. Since I purchased the Kubota, I have had several more people tell me that the Yanmar diesel in the JD 4000 series is not even a comparison to the Kubota diesel... even a JD dealer told me this, as JD puts Kubota engines in some of their skidsteers.
BTW, I will agree that the round headlights on the B7500 look old fashioned, but they certainly don't taint the reliability!
Peel and orange this weekend!

 

[Darren]

You listed two exceptions which were highly rated by Powers and for good reason. How many folks are aware that Ford's "No Boundaries" involves random checks of vehicles on the assembly. A Honda employee who works in quality control told me that a Ford team visiting their factory was amazed at the huge rework area (significantly larger than a football field). In that factory any worker could pull any vehicle for a problem that couldn't be resolved on the assembly line.

The guy was astounded when a reciprocal team saw that the rework area at the Ford plant they visited was the size of a basketball court. Then they found out that Ford inspected one out of every ten vehicles. The customers get to QC the car after they buy it. Of course they don't know that. They're still oohing and aahing over the cupholders.

From the beginning when Ford started putting Navistar diesels in pickups, the torque convertor in the transmission was inadequate and was going to fail. Even after Ford substituted a different transmission with the advent of the Powerstrokes, they still didn't fix the problem.

Stanadyne was told the the injection pumps Ford purchased for those engines were to have a Mean Time Before Failure (MTBF) of 100,000 miles. For a diesel engine that was pathetic. That was a $1,200 to $1,600 repair when the pump died often way before 100,000 miles but usually after the warranty expired. It's interesting that now that GM is putting the Isuzu engines in pickups they chose the Allison automatic. The rating for the smallest Allison transmission was 30,000 GV.! Why couldn't Ford use Allisons? That's what International used when a buyer wanted an automatic behind the same engine Ford was selling and installing destined to die transmissions.

If you think foreign is always better, buy a Pathfinder with an electronic transmission. When the transmission dies, even the shops that know what they're doing won't rebuild them.You'll have to buy one from a dealer. Hint: bend over and assume the position.

Have you noticed Cadillac's "quality" plastic fenders? The list goes on and on. Consumers, belied by the marketing blitz don't have a chance.

As for software development, project management isn't. From my observations it's about where heavy construction was thirty years ago with the exception of isolated pockets.

Before I bought a compact tractor I read the posts on ths board. There never was a doubt in my mind which brand I was going to buy. I'm not near a dealer and I didn't want problems and I've never had any. I bought a tractor with a quality reputation going back decades.

I'm hoping the internet will eventually result in a manufacturer such as Ford seeing a new model's sales volume drop to the extent they can't recover tooling and developments because the public was informed. We need something better than Consumer Reports. I'd like to see someone take the CDroms with shop rate info and highlight which vehicles are so badly designed that maintenance results in high hour charges.

It would be nice to have available a listing of part costs along with replacement intervals. Would you buy a car that the electronic shocks cost $1,200 each. Or how about the Audi with the strange A frame design that costs $600 each about every 30,000 miles? All that info is available.

If we had that information manufacturers would have to build a quality product or die.

 

[TresCrows]

"Peel an orange this weekend"---you go girl!! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif . I am to controversial to say the things you do. Refreshing.
This ain't about Ford (go Ford go), it ain't about foreign is always better (it ain't).
If you can, which I doubt you will be able too, take it back and demand a refund. I do not believe in lemons, if you get another it will be the same issues. I hope it all works out one way or the other. It is kinda late to shop other brands now, I prefer to do that before the purchase, which I did each time extensively. J

 

[snooks]

"Too many companies are run by cost accountants that want the product built cheaply and marketing that confuses the buying process with their ads that associate buying with image"


Don't blame the cost accountants.... It is the CEO that gets a large bonus when profits are up. The accountant does not produce one dollar of revenue and if things are that tight, the accounting department has already been whittled down to the bone. Been there, done that. Now I am self employed and loving it.

 

[cowboydoc]

With regard to the Allison go look on the Chevy board. There are a huge amount of the Allison's failing. Allison isn't even fixing any that are brought in. They are being sent back to Allison and a new one put in. They are dissecting each one and looking into why they are failing in such large numbers.