I would have to agree with the majority on this one. I have used both gear and Hydro tractors, and my vote goes to hydro for the uses described. Now if I was spraying and had to regulate the system, or as you guys mentioned "plowing Kansas", a gear drive might be just the ticket. As for gears being faster, maybe... eisier... NO WAY... less effort ... impossible. There are advantages to both drive systems, but there are disadvantages as well. In this case Hydro is the best bet.
Buying/Pricing
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cowboydoc
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Ok remember these are my opinions guys. Rat I have driven alot of hydros and except for a lawnmower you couldn't give me a hydro over a gear tractor. I wish you were closer or if you're ever in my area come on over. The local dealer would let me try out a hydro any day of the week. I have no doubt that I could match you in amount of work done. I've proved it with other guys. And maybe you're a better driver than me and would toast me so who knows.
As far as safety goes show me one stat that shows that a hydro is any safer than a gear driven tractor. I have never seen one so we'll just agree to disagree there. Bird I have the utmost respect for you and I just don't see how if you operate a tractor in a safe way that you aren't just as safe with a gear driven tractor. Safety is safety regardless if it's a hydro or it's a gear tractor. I guess it's kind of like saying an automatic car is safer than a manual. I don't think that holds any water so how does it hold water with a tractor? If you get hurt or cause damage with a gear tractor you more than likely would have caused the same damage with a hydro. I don't think once you know how to drive a tractor that there is any comparison there. And yes I have driven both alot. I've worked on alot of farms, ranches, and for a landscaper growing up and in college in addition to my family's ranch and my own.
In all due respect you guys think I'm wrong and that's fine. I'm just coming at it from the other side of the fence. I like gear tractors, I know I can do just as much work with a gear or hst, and for alot of things they are preferable to an hst. The only reason for the post was to show the other side of the fence. If you drive a gear tractor for a long period of time you aren't going to think an hst is that big of a deal in my humble opinion. You know 99% of what is written on here is merely a guys opinion on what works for him. Most of you think that hst is the way to go but I'd be willing to bet if this forum were made up more of real farmers you'd see a different opinion on hst vs. gear. It all comes down to your perspective. Obviously you guys think it is a difference but from my 30 years of driving every kind of tractor, combine, and farm machinery I don't think it does.
As far as safety goes show me one stat that shows that a hydro is any safer than a gear driven tractor. I have never seen one so we'll just agree to disagree there. Bird I have the utmost respect for you and I just don't see how if you operate a tractor in a safe way that you aren't just as safe with a gear driven tractor. Safety is safety regardless if it's a hydro or it's a gear tractor. I guess it's kind of like saying an automatic car is safer than a manual. I don't think that holds any water so how does it hold water with a tractor? If you get hurt or cause damage with a gear tractor you more than likely would have caused the same damage with a hydro. I don't think once you know how to drive a tractor that there is any comparison there. And yes I have driven both alot. I've worked on alot of farms, ranches, and for a landscaper growing up and in college in addition to my family's ranch and my own.
In all due respect you guys think I'm wrong and that's fine. I'm just coming at it from the other side of the fence. I like gear tractors, I know I can do just as much work with a gear or hst, and for alot of things they are preferable to an hst. The only reason for the post was to show the other side of the fence. If you drive a gear tractor for a long period of time you aren't going to think an hst is that big of a deal in my humble opinion. You know 99% of what is written on here is merely a guys opinion on what works for him. Most of you think that hst is the way to go but I'd be willing to bet if this forum were made up more of real farmers you'd see a different opinion on hst vs. gear. It all comes down to your perspective. Obviously you guys think it is a difference but from my 30 years of driving every kind of tractor, combine, and farm machinery I don't think it does.
cowboydoc
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TD,
What I meant by faster is that if you are plowing a field, discing, mowing hay, baling, spraying, etc. where a constant speed is important it's impossible to do a good job with an hst. Also it's hard to keep a constant speed with an hst even with the cruise control. Not very many hst's have constant speed built into them like a gear tractor does. You don't have the speed up and slow down like you do with an hst. You aren't doing more or less over a given piece of ground and have to go back and do it over, etc. Now if you're talking loader work, mowing, etc. then yes you aren't going to be any faster but I don't think once you know how to operate a tractor you will be much slower either.
What I meant by faster is that if you are plowing a field, discing, mowing hay, baling, spraying, etc. where a constant speed is important it's impossible to do a good job with an hst. Also it's hard to keep a constant speed with an hst even with the cruise control. Not very many hst's have constant speed built into them like a gear tractor does. You don't have the speed up and slow down like you do with an hst. You aren't doing more or less over a given piece of ground and have to go back and do it over, etc. Now if you're talking loader work, mowing, etc. then yes you aren't going to be any faster but I don't think once you know how to operate a tractor you will be much slower either.
Kodiak
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HEY!: /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif
Can we get back to the original problem of helping Mr. Dazed, sort out some of his confusion
(no pun intended). Instead of hashing out another war on the gear versus hydro isuue. If you want to get into that just do a search. Its been brought up over and over again. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif
Can we get back to the original problem of helping Mr. Dazed, sort out some of his confusion
(no pun intended). Instead of hashing out another war on the gear versus hydro isuue. If you want to get into that just do a search. Its been brought up over and over again. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif
Bird
Epic Contributor
<font color=blue>these are my opinions</font color=blue>
And so are ours; just opinions based on our experiences.
<font color=blue>As far as safety goes</font color=blue>
I think Rat has pretty well described reasons I'm convinced the HST is safer for the majority of operators. Now that's not to say a geared tractor isn't safe, but how many people have let one roll a little bit when they depressed the clutch, or have had a wet foot slip off the clutch pedal and the tractor jump? Wide open spaces, no problem, but in tight quarters, maybe critical. I figure emergency stops on tractors are not frequent, but if it should become necessary, which is faster? Just letting up with your right foot on the HST pedal (don't even have to pick up the foot)? Or moving both feet to the brake and clutch pedals (I know - you don't have to get the clutch, too, but instinct will make you try, I'll bet).
<font color=blue>kind of like saying an automatic car is safer than a manual</font color=blue>
I agree. On the wide open road, manual is great, but in heavy traffic haven't you ever been behind someone who stalled their engine with a manual transmission?
Folks like you and me learned to drive manual transmissions, whether in tractors, cars, trucks, motorcycles, etc. So yes, I feel safe enough with a manual transmission on anything, and in some cases for some uses, actually prefer a manual transmission, but overall I still think the HST is safer, even for us.
<font color=blue>If you get hurt or cause damage with a gear tractor you more than likely would have caused the same damage with a hydro</font color=blue>
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif I think when my brother-in-law's foot slipped off the clutch and he rammed his rotary cutter through the back wall of his shed, that would have happened if he'd had an HST./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
<font color=blue>if this forum were made up more of real farmers you'd see a different opinion on hst vs. gear</font color=blue>
I agree. They spend more time on bigger parcels of land, more room, fewer changes of direction, need to have a constant speed for long periods of time in many cases, and most importantly, HST just isn't available in most of the bigger tractors. But how many would prefer a geared tractor to PowerShift? The ones I know prefer the PowerShift (if they can afford it) and that's getting closer to an automatic.
Incidentally, in high speed pursuits on the streets of Dallas, I preferred the manual transmission as long as I had a partner to handle the radio - we didn't have hands free mikes in those days./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif But when we were baling hay, that's another matter. I would have preferred an HST. If you're cutting and baling a nice even hayfield, then a constant speed is what you want, but we cut and baled hay for a lot of folks who had some pretty sorry native grasses, fields that had been unattended for years, etc. Some places grass thick enough to go slower, some places thin enough to go faster; HST sure would have been nice, because I was changing gears more frequently than most folks would doing hay work.
By the way, when you stop when your round baler is ready to wrap and dump a bale, do you shift into neutral and let out on the clutch, or sit there with your foot on the clutch while it ties and dumps?
And so are ours; just opinions based on our experiences.
<font color=blue>As far as safety goes</font color=blue>
I think Rat has pretty well described reasons I'm convinced the HST is safer for the majority of operators. Now that's not to say a geared tractor isn't safe, but how many people have let one roll a little bit when they depressed the clutch, or have had a wet foot slip off the clutch pedal and the tractor jump? Wide open spaces, no problem, but in tight quarters, maybe critical. I figure emergency stops on tractors are not frequent, but if it should become necessary, which is faster? Just letting up with your right foot on the HST pedal (don't even have to pick up the foot)? Or moving both feet to the brake and clutch pedals (I know - you don't have to get the clutch, too, but instinct will make you try, I'll bet).
<font color=blue>kind of like saying an automatic car is safer than a manual</font color=blue>
I agree. On the wide open road, manual is great, but in heavy traffic haven't you ever been behind someone who stalled their engine with a manual transmission?
Folks like you and me learned to drive manual transmissions, whether in tractors, cars, trucks, motorcycles, etc. So yes, I feel safe enough with a manual transmission on anything, and in some cases for some uses, actually prefer a manual transmission, but overall I still think the HST is safer, even for us.
<font color=blue>If you get hurt or cause damage with a gear tractor you more than likely would have caused the same damage with a hydro</font color=blue>
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif I think when my brother-in-law's foot slipped off the clutch and he rammed his rotary cutter through the back wall of his shed, that would have happened if he'd had an HST./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
<font color=blue>if this forum were made up more of real farmers you'd see a different opinion on hst vs. gear</font color=blue>
I agree. They spend more time on bigger parcels of land, more room, fewer changes of direction, need to have a constant speed for long periods of time in many cases, and most importantly, HST just isn't available in most of the bigger tractors. But how many would prefer a geared tractor to PowerShift? The ones I know prefer the PowerShift (if they can afford it) and that's getting closer to an automatic.
Incidentally, in high speed pursuits on the streets of Dallas, I preferred the manual transmission as long as I had a partner to handle the radio - we didn't have hands free mikes in those days./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif But when we were baling hay, that's another matter. I would have preferred an HST. If you're cutting and baling a nice even hayfield, then a constant speed is what you want, but we cut and baled hay for a lot of folks who had some pretty sorry native grasses, fields that had been unattended for years, etc. Some places grass thick enough to go slower, some places thin enough to go faster; HST sure would have been nice, because I was changing gears more frequently than most folks would doing hay work.
By the way, when you stop when your round baler is ready to wrap and dump a bale, do you shift into neutral and let out on the clutch, or sit there with your foot on the clutch while it ties and dumps?
JohnMiller3
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<font color=blue>...The Kubota seems to be the most powerful all around...</font color=blue>
What is the definition of "most powerful"?
A 20hp tractor will mow your lawn as would a 50hp... and the lawn will look the same when you got done... (probably better... you won't see any ruts.../w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif)
That same 20hp tractor will spin that posthole digger @ 540rpm's as will the 50hp...
So, I'm wondering where the 30hp tractor came from...? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
What is the definition of "most powerful"?
A 20hp tractor will mow your lawn as would a 50hp... and the lawn will look the same when you got done... (probably better... you won't see any ruts.../w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif)
That same 20hp tractor will spin that posthole digger @ 540rpm's as will the 50hp...
So, I'm wondering where the 30hp tractor came from...? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
cowboydoc
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Bird,
I agree with all you've said from your point of view. I still stand by my opinions from my point of view. The only thing I don't see at all is the safety issue. I still say that it's not an issue between driving an hst and a geared tractor. Tractor safety is tractor safety. I wonder if there is some data on this issue.
With regard to powershift that's another story all together. Yes I agree with you I'd take a powershift any day of the week. Still driving a geared tractor though.
I won't say that the hst isn't right just that a gear tractor isn't wrong either. For the extra $2k or better for an hst a guy that's on a budget or is making a decision between a bigger tractor, other equipment, etc. a geared tractor shouldn't be eliminated as a possibility. Some of us still prefer manuals and like you said there are places even you would prefer a manual. I don't think that a person should be "scared" away from a geared tractor. It's a matter of opinion. I like shifting and can work gears and the pedals just as fast as a person can work an hst. Yes I may have more experience but it doesn't mean a person can't become very adept at learning on one either. We can banter all we want about each other's point of view with regard to the issue and I will still take my gear tractor and you will still take your hst. I agree here to just let the debate between the two go.
With regard to the round bale issue I shift it into neutral, let my bale go and head on. My tractor for the round baler is a quickshift so it's not that big of a deal.
Just so that it doesn't get debated I'm also talking about the synchro shift transmission. No I would not even want to have a tractor that wasn't synchro shift. With synchro shift though it's just as easy as driving a car.
I agree with all you've said from your point of view. I still stand by my opinions from my point of view. The only thing I don't see at all is the safety issue. I still say that it's not an issue between driving an hst and a geared tractor. Tractor safety is tractor safety. I wonder if there is some data on this issue.
With regard to powershift that's another story all together. Yes I agree with you I'd take a powershift any day of the week. Still driving a geared tractor though.
I won't say that the hst isn't right just that a gear tractor isn't wrong either. For the extra $2k or better for an hst a guy that's on a budget or is making a decision between a bigger tractor, other equipment, etc. a geared tractor shouldn't be eliminated as a possibility. Some of us still prefer manuals and like you said there are places even you would prefer a manual. I don't think that a person should be "scared" away from a geared tractor. It's a matter of opinion. I like shifting and can work gears and the pedals just as fast as a person can work an hst. Yes I may have more experience but it doesn't mean a person can't become very adept at learning on one either. We can banter all we want about each other's point of view with regard to the issue and I will still take my gear tractor and you will still take your hst. I agree here to just let the debate between the two go.
With regard to the round bale issue I shift it into neutral, let my bale go and head on. My tractor for the round baler is a quickshift so it's not that big of a deal.
Just so that it doesn't get debated I'm also talking about the synchro shift transmission. No I would not even want to have a tractor that wasn't synchro shift. With synchro shift though it's just as easy as driving a car.
Kodiak
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Richard:
Thankyou for being the sensible one to agree to end your part of this over zealous debate.
Now if everyone will go back and read the first post of this thread. We can all get together and sensibly help Mr. Dazed with his questions.
There, thats it, now everybody pat each other on the back. Somebody pass out the frosty cold ones. After all we are supposed to be freindly here.
Thankyou for being the sensible one to agree to end your part of this over zealous debate.
Now if everyone will go back and read the first post of this thread. We can all get together and sensibly help Mr. Dazed with his questions.
There, thats it, now everybody pat each other on the back. Somebody pass out the frosty cold ones. After all we are supposed to be freindly here.
JATO_RaT
Veteran Member
Its OK Russ, things are fine and going to be OK, Mr Dazed is getting lots of free advice and a mulititude of opinions. OK, so maybe the topic moves around, I don't care, free and open debate. Don't moderate, participate!
Boondox
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What...we're supposed to remain on topic? /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
Pete
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