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  1. #11

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    579
    Location
    Harrisburg, Illinois
    Tractor
    MF 165, Kioti 2554

    Default Re: Learn from my mistake

    Gary,
    Just a point of clarification. I can't speak for First Choice, but FC has in the past and is currently buying products, such as box blades, rear blades, landscape rakes, aerators, and rotary cutters designed by me and built by a good friend of mine, Jim Ozee at Midwest.

    First Choice has asked me to refrain from answering on their behalf so I can only refer you to them as to their marketing intentions. Pieter and John are good folks and will be glad to help you. Of course, I will be happy to answer any technical questions regarding my designs and their manufacture.

    I can be reached via this forum which I monitor several times a day, private message, email or my web site <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.midwestequipment.net/>http://www.midwestequipment.net/</A> , which has my email and contact phone number in addition to product descriptions, manuals and upcoming projects.

    That being said, I have a quick hitch design which Midwest will be in production on shortly.

  2. #12
    Super Member
    Rest in Peace
    frank_f15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    6,033
    Location
    BUFFALO ,NEW YORK AREA
    Tractor
    kubota b2400- R4 tires

    Default Re: Learn from my mistake

    jon: agree with u 100% do not like to give up my bucket for any reason.

  3. #13
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    673
    Location
    South Texas
    Tractor
    Kubota M6800

    Default Re: Learn from my mistake

    Jim,

    Since you are a designer it is good for you the hear what is not so great about an existing design so you can fix those problems. I like the Speeco hitch a lot, but have some bitches about it also.

    There seems something stupid about an adjustable quick hitch. It seems to me that the whole idea is to make a hitch that does not, and can not, and therefore does not require any adjustment. The task of adjusting it turns it into a slow hitch and adds two wrenches and a tape measure to the tractor tool box.

    Several questions:

    Why the top adjustment on Speeco? If a standard has been established it makes most sense to stick to the standard, and let the implements become standardized. If I make my implements non-standard, then every standard implement I buy in the future will become non-standard.

    Another bitch about the Speeco, The adapter, which is included, should mount on a seperate top pin hole so it is not necessary to unhook the top link to install the adapter.

    The top hook being non-standard, every hitch buyer will have to make a choice and guess which holes he should use, with a 75% chance of selecting the non-standard setting. He then has a "personal standard" that is not very. Speeco is pretty stupid to not print "The industry standard dimension is 15" (or 14 7/8" if that is the correct number). I had to call them.

    The Speeco top hook bolts also don't make sense. They are so close to the hook eye that the implement top pin hole must be close to the edge of the metal. This puts the thin wweb of steel in tension.


    I have read some rumors of an ASAE quick hitch standard, but the ASAE website did not list one that I could find. I found 3pt standard, but not quick hitch. The ASAE site did not impress me. It seems like a standard so important as a quich hitch standard would be a freeby, not something to try to get rich off of.

    Have you seen this quick hitch standard?





  4. #14

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    873
    Location
    N Central Ohio
    Tractor
    NH TC35D/SUPER H&M/F-20/JD B&D/FORDSON/JD250 SSL

    Default Re: Learn from my mistake

    I have the same Q-H as u do and had to
    make new top link plate.
    The old one was to close to frame and box blade and some of
    the other stuff wouldn't work.
    It also had WAY to much play in it for 3/4" pin.
    I only drilled one set of holes in it and it fits
    most of my stuff.

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    72
    Location
    North Alabama
    Tractor
    L3710DT, 4wd, R4's

    Default Re: Learn from my mistake

    I have to agree. I don't have a quick hitch but from what I've been reading, almost everyone has to adjust theirs or their implements somehow. I'm one of those lazy guys I guess because I expect to buy a quick hitch that attaches to my 3ph and all I have to do is back up to the implement, lock onto the implement pins, then attach the third arm. I shouldn't have to weld on pieces of plate, drill holes in my implements or the hitch, buy all kinds of adapters and bushings, etc. WE NEED AN INDUSTRY STANDARD.....AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!

  6. #16
    Platinum Member wasabi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    717
    Location
    Cullowhee Mountain, NC
    Tractor
    PT2445 and PT1850

    Default Re: Learn from my mistake

    Not to change the discussion, but I can't resist chiming in. [img]/w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif[/img]

    Yesterday I changed implements four times...scape blade, FEL and trencher (2X) the total time consumed with such changes was about three minutes...no knuckles busted...no curse words...no pry bar.....and, the only reason I even got out of the tractor seat at all was to connect or disconnect hydraulic hoses...otherwise, the unique Power-Trac quick-attach system means you simply scoot up to the implement...click in, press a lever to lock...and go!

    Truly amazing!!! Check out Power Trac line of gas or diesel tractors at the PT forum here or go to www.power-trac.com. I'm very pleased with this system of tools.

    Feel free to E-mail me if you have questions.

  7. #17

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    579
    Location
    Harrisburg, Illinois
    Tractor
    MF 165, Kioti 2554

    Default Re: Learn from my mistake

    Good Post.

    Since I don't work for Speeco, or any one else except my customers for that matter, please realize the following is my opinion.

    The top link adjustment on many hitches resulted from many implement manufacturers ignoring the Cat 1 spec and just doing whatever was convenient. Therefore, to increase the number of possible implements a quick hitch would fit, they made the top link hook adjustable for height.

    For instance, one big offender is the rotary cutter. It is sometimes difficult to provide a large enough "window" for the PTO to operate through with standard Cat 1 spacing, so many manufacturers increase the height of the top link to give more space. A boom pole is another example. On many tractors, lift at the end of the boom is increased by spreading the top link away from the lift arms, causing the boom to tilt upward at full lift.

    There are other reasons, of course, as well. Sometimes it's easier to use existing parts from other products than to develop new ones and using parts across several designs reduces development costs as well as manufacturing and inventory costs.

    Beware, the quick hitch, even ours can cause other problems. PTO lengths should be examined to make sure you retain necessary overlap dimensions throughout the lift cycle. The weight distribution of many quick-attached implements will be biased toward the rear of the tractor. Not a problem most of the time, but it is quite surprising how much difference it can make especially with rotary cutters and bale spears.

    I have seen the standard and in addition to height and width spacing, it specifies the pin diameters for top link and lift pins. Surprisingly, these are larger than the Cat 1 implement standards, making bushings or the changing of the pins on the implements necessary.

    My philosophy is similar to yours. Build the quick hitch to the Cat 1 implement standard. No adjustable top hook. I will defer to user input as far as the larger pin diameters. I can see the value of adding the bushing with the ball on the end to help center and retain implements, but a properly designed hitch would not hook up off center anyway. I lean towards using the Cat 1 implement pin standard rather than the quick hitch standard.

    Your turn.

  8. #18

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    579
    Location
    Harrisburg, Illinois
    Tractor
    MF 165, Kioti 2554

    Default Re: Learn from my mistake

    Buck1

    There has been an industry standard for some years now. To my knowledge, only the recent push by Deere has made any manufacturers pay attention to it other than to loosely build products around those dimensions. Even those products which conform to the standard may not be quick hitch compatible. (If you can't access the pin from underneath, for instance, some quick hitches may not fit.)

    Beware - this is a blatant plug. All the products built by Midwest conform to the Cat 1 standard and are quick hitch compatible.

  9. #19
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    673
    Location
    South Texas
    Tractor
    Kubota M6800

    Default Re: Learn from my mistake

    Thanks for your comments and for helping the readers of TBN. It makes good marketing sense to build what the customers need, whether they know it or not. The best thing we can do to make manufacturers pay attention to the standard is to not buy non-standard implements, and tell them that is the reason. I would think the sales department of an implement manufacturer (not the local dealer) would pay attention to an email enquiry:

    Is your model xx234 built to ASAE Cat I quick hitch specs? If not, do you know of one that is?

    When they see the customers are educated they will conform.

    Does Midwest have a website that shows what is available?

  10. #20

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    579
    Location
    Harrisburg, Illinois
    Tractor
    MF 165, Kioti 2554

    Default Re: Learn from my mistake

    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.midwestequipment.net>Midwest Equipment</A>

    Few manufacturers build all their implements to the Cat 1 implement spec. No one is building their implements to the quick hitch spec. That would require the larger pins and would not allow the implement to connect to a Cat 1 toplink or lift arm.

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