Help! Tractor buying advice for new land owner

[Gary Fowler]

Good advice from all. For stumps the size you said (2-3 feet diameter) I would get a track hoe in and dig all those up at one time and be done with it. A small CUT with a back hoe will take forever to dig around one that size and even then may not handle the root ball for something that size. Pay the professionals to get rid of that stuff for you. Then you can buy a 30-35 HP tractor with FEL and box blade and do everything else that you have listed. Almost any brand will work well, although in my opinion some of them are priced out of reason (JD). For quality and price I would look at the Korean built LS tractors that are getting more and more popular. Check out the LS forum on this website for more info. You definitely get more tractor for your money with that brand at the present time, but you need to decide on what fits your body and wallet. Some of them suit some folks and they swear by the comfort and quality and yet many folks will tell you just the opposite. My advice is go visit every dealer in your area and sit on them drive them, check the controls, seats, functionallity etc. and get a brand and model that is comfortable, controls are well placed, has good warranty, good dealer that gives you a warm fuzzy feeling when talking to them and meets your budget requirements. If buying new, try to get all the equipment that you may need or want as part of the finance deal. You will get better pricing from the dealer that way also. Most folks here will steer you towards a hydrastatic drive which are supposedly simplier to operate, but I am old school and like the gear drive with shuttle shift myself. Operator preference. Try both and see how you like them.

 

[SrChf]

I'm not sure you need a backhoe; that doesn't mean you wouldn't like one. What you would rent (the 310 etc) will be much more capable than whatever is on the back of your tractor. That may factor into your decision making. Also, if the ground is moist or soft there, you may be able to dig stumps with the loader, especially if you cover it with stump remover and let it sit for awhile first.

This is what I was talking about when I was referring to the pallet forks. They're cheaper elsewhere (I made my own) but that gives you the idea. They're handy and versatile.

You're the only one who can decide whether money paid for convenience in your own schedule for the project, or for someone else or a more efficient piece of equipment is more important to you.

I wish I could tell you specific models. Something like a Kubota L3240 or B3300 or John Deere 3320 or 3520 ought to be fine, and work in your trees.

Is SrChf "Senior Chief?"

Thanks, Those clamp on forks look good, though the tips look odd. I would think they should be beveled to a dull edge to get up under stuff. Is that how you made yours?

Wow - I wasn't prepared for the thought that I would need a 3000 series JD or equivalent. I was really hoping I could make due with the 2000 series, like a 2305 or a 2320 (or equivalent). That pretty much guarantees I would need to buy used with my 20 to 25k budget. So - what is the best site to find used tractors?

Yes Sir! - you got it right for SrChf. Me US Navy.

 

[Reg]

I wouldn't mess with clamp on forks, too much chance of them swiveling sideways, to say nothing of bending the bucket edge.
OK, lets say something about that bucket edge;
The leverage of clamp on forks against a bucket edge is HUGE - you may be able to handle it with chains to hooks on the top edge, but you are still carrying stuff "out there".
If you want/need pallet forks for other reaons just get a set of pallet forks and save your bucket(s).

If you will be moving stumps and doing other forestry work a grapple would make a LOT more sense.
JMAO, etc.

 

[jenkinsph]

I didn't see anyone else mention a stump grinder yet but for large ones this might make more sense. With the exception of the stumps that are in your way of putting in a drive or fixing the drainage issues I think I would leave them alone if the budget is tight. Have a professional excavator bid out this heavy stump work.

I have used the Deere 110tlb to do the rest of what you describe with good success. Good used ones are available. Most of these have a skidplate on the bottom which I consider a "must have". I think it is best to get one of these with full front and rear hydraulics as it can't be added later.

Most of us here buy the implements as we can afford them according to needs. Implements I would suggest would include a brush hog, forks and or grapple, boxblade and rear blade.

I wouldn't be in a rush to buy a new lawnmower, I would get by with a beater to save some money. Wait until you get the place smoothed up first.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Tractor size is all relative. You can do most anything with a 19 Hp that you can do with a 70Hp, it will just take longer and you have to do it in smaller bites. Think shovel vs front end loader, they can both accomplish the same thing given no time constraints. I dont think any tractors were around when the pyramids were built either and look what 100,000 people can accomplish with sticks and bronze implements by hand. It all depends on how long you wish to take to do things. The biggest thing is limitation on lift capacity. You have to look at what you think you will be moving and size your tractor accordingly or be ready to rent or contract out larger projects. Many folks here are happy with GC 2400 MF or BX Kubotas that do all the chores that they need on 5-10 acre plots. As far as grading roads, mowing yards, moving a little dirt, those small SCUT and CUT beat the heck out of shovels and wheelbarrows. If you are retired and have all the time in the world at your disposal, then you can work with much smaller tractor. I share the maintainence on 42 acres with my brother in law and we did fine on this with a 750 model 2 WDused John Deere (19HP) for a long while. It pulled a 4 foot bush hog with ease and mowed the whole 42 acres. IT took a couple of weeks to do it, but it got done. We now have 4 tractors to do the work which really means that we have an implement for use on each tractor so we dont need to hook up and unhook so much. Speaking of which, telescoping 3 point hitch lift arms, dont leave the dealer with a tractor without them. They are indespensable for hooking up a 3 point hitch implement by yourself. Without them you need at least 2 people and 3 would be better especially if one is a gorilla that can lift 500 pounds. Our first 2 tractors dont have them and it takes both of us to hook and unhook anything with them.
Another thing to consider when upgrading to larger tractor is size of implement. Larger tractor means larger implement. Larger implement means higher cost as example 4 foot bush hog is about $500 while and 8 foot is$3000-5000. You can do the same work with a 4 footer as an 8 footer, it just takes a bit more time. Fuel cost will be about the same when you factor in the amount of HP required to turn them.
I suppose I should not be recommending a smaller tractor since my last one is 72 HP but I had some specific needs for a larger tractor with Cab but I still use my smaller one also for small jobs. You can easily get too large a machine. I have to use my small tractor to bush hog the timbered areas and fencelines since I dont relish trimming all the limbs up 13 feet high. That is another consideration you should be looking at, storage. Will the tractor that you buy fit in your storage area or will it have to set outside. Outside storage destroys the paint, plastic and seats pretty fast. Bigger tractors need bigger sheds also whereas small scut can fit in a small garage or even a little 4 x 8 storage building. MY 72 HP needs 12.5 feet of roof and over 20 feet of length and 8 feet of width if I plan to open the cab doors and forget loading it on a trailer to take to a dealer for service.

 

[MarkV]

Welcome to the forum SrChf. Sounds to me like some here are recommending you need a battle ship to recon a stream. Your on 5 acres with 1 cleared, that doesn't require 35 to 45 hp or a commercial quality TLB. (tractor,loader,backhoe) I think you would be fine in the 20 hp range. A backhoe is great but expensive. Rent for the occasional backhoe job. Many here are very happy with smallest compact tractors (SCUT) on acreage of your size. If it were me I would be looking at what your tractor needs will be after the first years big jobs are done.

MarkV

 

[284 International]

Reg is right that the clamp on forks can bend the bucket or twist under heavy use. For just moving clippings or yard waste, or small sections of logs you should be fine. Abuse destroys anything. And, if you can afford it, a replacement set of forks in lieu of the bucket is preferable. The grapples are even nicer for branches and stuff, but more costly. Like most things, you have to balance out budget vs other needs. The $3000 or so a grapple would run may get you a bigger machine so you don't need it, or hire special equipment to take care of the nastiest stumps.

My forks actually are even blunter than that, I just used some 3 1/2" channel. They are really ugly. And they work well, which is all I need out of them.

With the exception of absolute force (say lifting 2000lbs with the loader or pushing over 4 inch diameter trees, for instance) a small tractor does everything a large one does, just in smaller bites, and sometimes things the larger one can't. A touch-up brush can paint your living room, but a roller is better suited for the task. The touch up brush gets into the finer spots the roller doesn't reach. Which is better? Each has a job, it depends on your needs.

That's why I suggested getting a guy with a bulldozer to come wreck the stumps, rocks and heavy work. Then use your smaller machine to move the remnants, smooth and level, etc. If the cat driver doesn't have to worry about clean-up, he'll get an amount of land cleared that will stagger you, and leave plenty of work for your tractor and you. There are other ways to do it, but that's where I would start looking. You can get away with the 2000 series, just be aware of what it means.

I keep getting stuck on the idea that the big rental backhoes have been inefficient and unproductive for you. A small utility tractor is going to be frustrating, I'm afraid.

Others are chiming with good advice, and have more specific knowledge than me.

Are you able to post pictures of the jobs in question?

Thanks for your service, Senior Chief.

 

[SrChf]

Welcome to the forum SrChf. Sounds to me like some here are recommending you need a battle ship to recon a stream. Your on 5 acres with 1 cleared, that doesn't require 35 to 45 hp or a commercial quality TLB. (tractor,loader,backhoe) I think you would be fine in the 20 hp range. A backhoe is great but expensive. Rent for the occasional backhoe job. Many here are very happy with smallest compact tractors (SCUT) on acreage of your size. If it were me I would be looking at what your tractor needs will be after the first years big jobs are done.

MarkV

This is music to my ears and making alot of sense. Hire out the huge stuff, get a SCUT to cover the medium and small stuff - and I appreciate you spelling out those acronyms for me. I had no clue yet what they meant as I am as green as they come on this topic of tractors (but know how to use google, so would have figured it out eventually :thumbsup

So, is a JD2305 and 2320 a "SCUT"? (I know these because I went to the JD dealer yesterday and asked "what is the smallest tractor you make that can attach a bucket, backhoe and belly mower - this was their answer, though he said the 2305 is discontinued and being replaced with some other thing. Closest thing he had on the lot was a 2320 - which with a bucket, hoe and mower ran for 26k AFTER the $1000 2 implement discount.) Is this unit it along the lines of what you recommend? What are the 2305's & 2320 equivalents that I should look up and compare? I am open to all brands.

 

[SrChf]

Reg is right that the clamp on forks can bend the bucket or twist under heavy use. For just moving clippings or yard waste, or small sections of logs you should be fine. Abuse destroys anything. And, if you can afford it, a replacement set of forks in lieu of the bucket is preferable. The grapples are even nicer for branches and stuff, but more costly. Like most things, you have to balance out budget vs other needs. The $3000 or so a grapple would run may get you a bigger machine so you don't need it, or hire special equipment to take care of the nastiest stumps.

My forks actually are even blunter than that, I just used some 3 1/2" channel. They are really ugly. And they work well, which is all I need out of them.

With the exception of absolute force (say lifting 2000lbs with the loader or pushing over 4 inch diameter trees, for instance) a small tractor does everything a large one does, just in smaller bites, and sometimes things the larger one can't. A touch-up brush can paint your living room, but a roller is better suited for the task. The touch up brush gets into the finer spots the roller doesn't reach. Which is better? Each has a job, it depends on your needs.

That's why I suggested getting a guy with a bulldozer to come wreck the stumps, rocks and heavy work. Then use your smaller machine to move the remnants, smooth and level, etc. If the cat driver doesn't have to worry about clean-up, he'll get an amount of land cleared that will stagger you, and leave plenty of work for your tractor and you. There are other ways to do it, but that's where I would start looking. You can get away with the 2000 series, just be aware of what it means.

I keep getting stuck on the idea that the big rental backhoes have been inefficient an unproductive for you. A small utility tractor is going to be frustrating, I'm afraid.

Others are chiming with good advice, and have more specific knowledge than me.

Are you able to post pictures of the jobs in question?

Thanks for your service, Senior Chief.

Good stuff Brother. I like the analogy of the paint brush vs roller. I have time and patience(once I get the 1 acre done - that I am getting hounded for to 'hurryitup'.) so I seem to think I could do all of it in just smaller bites using a 2000 series but I get what you are saying about hiring out the big stuff. I cant seem to help that I am wired to never sub out or rent though - feels like flushing money, whether its a house (I've always bought) car (Never leased and only 1x bought new) or in this case earth-changing equipment. I also HATE to buy anything new, but with the pressure from the wife to at least get the 1 acre done, and the sucky weather here and the great financing options going on right now, (JD is doing 48M@0% & Kubota is doing 60M @ 0%!) its tempting to just take the plunge into a new unit -and with the financing, it makes sense to get all the implements I would ever need all at once so I can finance it all. With a 25k ceiling, that means prolly the smallest size TLB out there.

Oh, and thank you for the consolation. It's a labor of love, lemme tell you.

 

[SrChf]

Tractor size is all relative. You can do most anything with a 19 Hp that you can do with a 70Hp, it will just take longer and you have to do it in smaller bites. Think shovel vs front end loader, they can both accomplish the same thing given no time constraints. I dont think any tractors were around when the pyramids were built either and look what 100,000 people can accomplish with sticks and bronze implements by hand. It all depends on how long you wish to take to do things. The biggest thing is limitation on lift capacity. You have to look at what you think you will be moving and size your tractor accordingly or be ready to rent or contract out larger projects.

Brilliant. Thank you. So, what I am hearing is I need to be looking for a SCUT with hight lift capacity. Now I just need to figure out how much one of my typical trees weigh uncut for skidding, and how much a bucket length section weighs for lifting. The JD dealer said that the 2320 could only lift 800 lbs. Not sure if he was trying to upsell me to the 3000 series or not as that sounds like not very much when thinking of fresh fallen trees. Not like I can rent a 2000 series JD and give a tree a try. I'll look on YouTube see if anyone with that size scut is dragging a tree or lifting big rounds to get an idea of what they can do.

Thanks again!