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  1. #21
    Super Star Member TripleR's Avatar
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    Mar 2009
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    17,980
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    Missouri
    Tractor
    Kubota M8540HDC, L5740HSTC, BX2200, BX2660, John Deere 425&1025R, Case, Massey Ferguson, Ford

    Default Re: HST vs. Shuttle Shift?

    Quote Originally Posted by canoetrpr View Post
    Reminds me of what Adam Smith said in a different context "In the long run, we are all dead".
    Pretty much.

  2. #22
    Member BillyCrash's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
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    35
    Location
    Republic of Texas
    Tractor
    Mahindra 3016HST

    Default Re: HST vs. Shuttle Shift?

    Quote Originally Posted by canoetrpr View Post
    Reminds me of what Adam Smith said in a different context "In the long run, we are all dead"
    I'm pretty sure that was Keynes, wasn't it? Btw, he's dead as a door nail, but his stupid-***** policies are being shoved down our throats and are failing miserably - which a blind monkey could have predicted.

    And what does that have to do with this forum you say, well, less money left in the private sector for us to buy tractors with!

  3. #23
    Member BillyCrash's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
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    35
    Location
    Republic of Texas
    Tractor
    Mahindra 3016HST

    Default Re: HST vs. Shuttle Shift?

    Quote Originally Posted by jinman View Post
    If you do a lot of tasks which require fine control, slow and fast speeds, direction changes, and the ability to concentrate completely on the task and not the tractor's operation, then HST is the best choice.
    This is exactly why I chose HST.

  4. #24
    Super Star Member
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    11,140
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    somewhere usa
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    Deere 110tlb, 4520, x749, x758, L130

    Default Re: HST vs. Shuttle Shift?

    Quote Originally Posted by jinman View Post
    If you do a lot of tasks which require fine control, slow and fast speeds, direction changes, and the ability to concentrate completely on the task and not the tractor's operation, then HST is the best choice. Some HST tractors in the 45-55 hp range do not even have a clutch. There's no need for a clutch since you can slow to creep speed, stop, go in the opposite direction with the HST pedal(s). Some HST tractors maintain a clutch just for PTO operation, but many have PTOs that are engaged completely independent of the drivetrain.

    In my experience/observation, I find many people with gear driven tractors experience clutch problems because they end up riding the clutch to slow the tractor and do fine work. Shuttle shifting changes direction, but does nothing for you if you need to slow to a creep and then accelerate without changing gears. That's what HST does with ease, but many gear tractor operators (especially those who are new to tractors) will burn out clutches because they slip the clutch to achieve varying speeds. In full-size TLBs used for construction, clutches have been replaced with torque converters, but I don't know of anything similar in the utility sized tractors.

    For compact tractors this for the most part sums up the advantages of hydrostatic transmissions quite well. Using a modern hydro tractor enables the operater to concentrate on the implement at hand and do a better job with it. Whether mowing up close to a building, loading my dump trailer or grading a fine finish for a slab with a boxblade the last thing I need to concern myself with is the clutch and shifter.

  5. #25
    Super Member Dargo's Avatar
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    Mar 2004
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    S. IN
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    Jinma, Foton, TYM, Belarus, Yanmar, Branson, Montana, Mahindra and maybe some green and orange too.

    Default Re: HST vs. Shuttle Shift?

    Quote Originally Posted by Qapla View Post
    Keep in mind that some shuttle shift tractors do require the use of the clutch do change directions.
    Ah, okay, you said "some". That is definitely correct. On my JD, I can get in the tractor and run all day long, changing gears and all, without ever touching the clutch. Well, maybe you have to push it down to start, I don't recall. I just do that out of habit. With the shuttle shift lever centered, I can change gears as well as changing directions with just flipping the lever. I also have the little knob that adjusts the aggressiveness of the shuttle as well. I think it was like a $40 option; well worth it. For hard FEL use, you want it to hit fast and pretty hard. For mowing, you want it to ease the power to the wheels.

    Okay, I just tried it. I don't ever have to touch the clutch if I don't want to. I do have to stop to change gear ranges though. Otherwise, I could run completely clutchless. However, I like to know exactly when and how much power I put to the wheels. Since I started using clutches 45 years ago, I seem to stick to old habits and generally do use the clutch though. Still, this is quite different than my first tractor I had where nothing was syncronized. I had to come to a complete stop to change any gears. I wonder if there are any still made like that? That was a PIA.
    1982 18" Murray push mower (B&S industrial 8 hp engine!) custom deck, new blade - became unbalanced when one side old blade broke off!
    HF moving dolly - high torque! Dogbone multi-wrench too..wait, it split on first use.
    My trash man is the greatest. No matter how bad the economy gets and how bad stocks drop or how bad home values drop, his business is always picking up.

  6. #26
    Bronze Member US American's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
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    69
    Location
    NW Washington
    Tractor
    JD 4320 Reverser

    Default Re: HST vs. Shuttle Shift?

    Like anything, its what you are most comfortable with, right? Unless you need power to the ground I would go hst. I needed power to the ground more than I needed surgical capabilities. If the tables were flipped I would have stayed with the hydro. I can use the foot throttle to speed up and slow down for loader work. All clutchless. A reverser that still requires clutching is worthless imho. Might as well just have synchronized 2-R shifting.
    JD 4320 Reverser R1s w/ 400x loader

  7. #27
    Veteran Member canoetrpr's Avatar
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    Aug 2005
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    2,382
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    Ontario, Canada
    Tractor
    Kubota M7040 cab/hyd shuttle - current, Kubota L3400 - traded

    Default Re: HST vs. Shuttle Shift?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyCrash View Post
    I'm pretty sure that was Keynes, wasn't it? Btw, he's dead as a door nail, but his stupid-***** policies are being shoved down our throats and are failing miserably - which a blind monkey could have predicted.

    And what does that have to do with this forum you say, well, less money left in the private sector for us to buy tractors with!
    My faux pas. You are quite right. It was Keynes.

    Not that I want to start something political here but to be honest Keynesian policies were what brought America out of the great depression i.e. it was really WW2 and the massive debt financed government spending that got things going. The problem tends to be that people forget that while Keynes advocated a government running large deficits during recessions, he also advocated surpluses and paying back the debt during good times. The problem occurs when you run deficits during both good times and bad.
    Current: Kubota M7040 cab, hydraulic shuttle, Kubota M20 loader (made by ALO), LandPride RCR1872 rotary cutter, Horst bale spears & forks, Woods HB72 box blade, Kodiak 7' rake, Walco cultivator, chain harrow, Meteor 74" pull style blower

    Traded: Kubota L3400, LA473 HST (300 hrs), and various attachments

  8. #28
    Member BillyCrash's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
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    Republic of Texas
    Tractor
    Mahindra 3016HST

    Default Re: HST vs. Shuttle Shift?

    Quote Originally Posted by canoetrpr View Post
    My faux pas. You are quite right. It was Keynes.

    Not that I want to start something political here but to be honest Keynesian policies were what brought America out of the great depression i.e. it was really WW2 and the massive debt financed government spending that got things going. The problem tends to be that people forget that while Keynes advocated a government running large deficits during recessions, he also advocated surpluses and paying back the debt during good times. The problem occurs when you run deficits during both good times and bad.
    Not to continue the debate, but I would argue the Keynesian policies only prolonged the depression. Big government spending is not an efficient way to stimulate an economy. It allocates capital based on the decisions of a room full of bureaucrats, with much of the decisions being politically-based, not economically based; and takes a cut of the tax receipts to process and implement the decisions.

    If instead they had stimulated by reducing government spending and letting the private sector keep more of the fruits of it's labor, the economy would have rebounded before WWII. Millions of people with millions of individual economic choices always allocate capital better than government, it's true by definition. Works every time if you let it. And Keynesian policies fail every time they are tried.

  9. #29
    Gold Member LMan1967's Avatar
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    May 2011
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    Location
    Kudzu, Alabama
    Tractor
    MF 1643

    Default Re: HST vs. Shuttle Shift?

    Great info, thanks much!
    Proverbs 31:6-7
    Lord, help me to be the kind of person my kudzu thinks I am.

  10. #30
    Gold Member LMan1967's Avatar
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    May 2011
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    275
    Location
    Kudzu, Alabama
    Tractor
    MF 1643

    Default Re: HST vs. Shuttle Shift?

    Hmmm, I have now been told that HSTs are not good in hilly areas, as the power bleed-off from the engine is too great to run attachments (such as a bushhog or other PTO-driven device). Is this an issue? If so, how much "hill" is too much?
    Proverbs 31:6-7
    Lord, help me to be the kind of person my kudzu thinks I am.

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