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  1. #21
    Veteran Member
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    1,895
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    S. W. Virginia
    Tractor
    Kubota B3200, Ford NAA, IH 454D, Case 1845C

    Default Re: 30-ish HP TLB Thoughts

    For loader and backhoe work HP aren't that important. A B21 or B26 kubota is at the lower end of the hp range for that size tractor but are extremely capable at digging and loading.

    IMO the hoe and loader on even a well used B21 will far outlast and outwork what Kioti has to offer in that size range. Kioti may make a good tractor, but loaders and backhoes have not been their strong suit.
    Kubota B3200
    Ford NAA Jubilee
    International 454D
    Case 1845C skid steer
    JD 265

  2. #22
    Veteran Member rScotty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
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    1,004
    Location
    Rural mountains - Colorado
    Tractor
    Many in the past. Today, a Kubota M59, JD530, 2 Yanmars - 16 & 33 hp, & a JD310SG

    Default Re: 30-ish HP TLB Thoughts

    I'm extremely open to a used tractor
    Most used tractors/TLBs are fine. BTW, like most people on this forum I call both kinds of machine as "tractors". If we say TLB that's because it has some specific feature that is a little different on a construction machine as opposed to an agricultural machine. Basically a machine that will work for a weekend it will work for a decade. That's why dealers are open to your taking one home and doing that. Tractors are incredibly durable. But looking for the kind of deal that you can so often find in the used car market is a complete waste of time in the tractor market. The used tractor market is surprisingly consistent in price. You can get old looking for a deal where a 10% variation in price would be huge.
    .............
    I think the JDJ10 is a little too large for my spaces here.
    Good. Then we've established an upper limit.
    The truth is that most tractors could get by with less HP. What is more useful is more hydraulics, more weight, a wider stance, and a lower CG.

    From what I hear you saying, I think 25hp would be a decent lower target, and I think you will be better served with a TLB having an integral loader and hoe than with a tractor where both are added on. We can discuss why if you want.

    How does the lower HP but higher gpm hydraulics translate/compare
    In general HP and hydraulics are balanced to one another. Don't worry about that, within wide limits, both will be adequate for the machine. Although having 2 or more separate hydraulic pumps for things like power steering, BH swing, etc. is a big advantage, it is something usually found on larger tractors.
    Tractors with 3pt hitches are one world and tend to use their HP to pull implements so they put their sophistication into doing that. TLBs are the machines with an integral loader and BH like the JD110, and they lean more to using their HP to run higher gpm and pressure in the hydraulics...and sometimes do this via additional pumps.

    I also have lots of rolling terrain, so stability is a huge concern
    I think stability should be your largest concern. Stability is not only a large and legitimate safety concern, but on land with any slope at all the side hill stability will dictate how much usefulness you get from the machine.
    People whose land is flat always underestimate the importance of side hill stability. Stability is #1 for me and sounds like it might be for you too.
    TLBs tend to have a lower CG than tractors. That is another argument in their favor.

    Tires affect stability more than CG does. After all, CG is variable when you have a loader and hoe.....think about that for awhile. Imagine yourself on the machine.
    Wide tire spacing rules, you definitely want a wide spacing on the tires. On a tractor, be sure to check that the tires can be both reversed and spaced out farther. Tractors and TLBs are different in that regard, TLBs tend to be designed with the tires already at maximum tire spacing. They get away with that with a lower CG and wide flat treaded industrial R4 tires. You should probably stay away from R1 or Ag tread. Ag tread - particularly on the front wheels - is not what you want on side hills.
    If you are going to work on sloping ground consider that R4 or industrial tread has heavy sidewalls, a wider flat tire tread, and for that reason has a consistent contact patch as the steering angle changes or the tractor leans. That's important. The other option is R3 turfs - which reduce CG nicely and are even wider than R4s but are costly and lower traction. They are good for some purposes however - mostly for rocky ground where traction can actually be higher than any other tread. Or of course where you have delicate grass/clover. Turfs require chains in the snow, ice, and sometimes in mud.

    I'm a little puzzled by the "all over the map" comment.

    So was I.


    I don't know exactly what I want in loader lift in weight or height
    I like to have over 2500 lbs lift, but I did most of my work with a tractor that could only lift 1000 lbs - and it couldn't lift that safely as it was too large a percentage of the tractor's own weight. On uneven ground it was nerve wracking.
    ................
    Since I won't be loading dump trucks, loading height isn't a consideration
    No, but being able to load items onto a pickup truck sure is. And having a long reach is sure handy. Make sure it can load a pickup. Along with that, having a BH with a long reach and able to move the bucket long distances up and down turns out to be more important on my land than the digging force. Curling the bucket always has enough digging force - even on small machines.

    I'm wondering if the top & tilt feature would be valuable. I assume the alternative is to get off and adjust linkage by hand.

    Yes. Nice to have, but you can do it by hand. A luxury, not a deal maker. It can be added to any machine.

    Later this week, I will try to visit the Bobcat dealer to see what they offer, which I resisted before due to the distance.
    In your shoes I'd use kubota's well-worked out TLBs as the standard for comparison. They aren't perfect, but I don't know of any better. In something smaller than the JD110 the littler Kubotas might be your only TLB choice. And if you decide you had rather have done it differently Kubota and JD have an advantage on resale.

    These are all good machines. We are rich in choices in this country right now. So whatever you get you are going to be surprised at how well it works.
    Enjoy, rScotty
    Pride of place goes to our 2 cylinder John Deer 530. With her loader, PS, clutched PTO, and remote hydraulics she's as modern & useful today as 50 years ago. And has a more comfortable seat, too.
    A Kubota M59 & a JD310SG for TLB work....giving us options on doing heavy jobs.
    We'll not forget Mr. Big & Mrs. Little - 33 & 16 hp Yanmars - now gone.
    And a line-up of well-used implements that still work better than they look.


  3. #23
    Bronze Member herefromthere's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
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    59
    Location
    Wet Side of WA
    Tractor
    Kubota L3200HST 4WD, BH77 w/Mechanical Thumb, Land Pride BB1572 Box Scraper

    Default Re: 30-ish HP TLB Thoughts

    Thank you for some excellent and informative replies! I'm finding myself gravitating toward the kubota L3200 if I'm going with new, but I haven't been in to talk to the Bobcat/Kioti dealer yet. I've got a fair amount on my plate for the next month, but after the new year, I'd like to get the ball rolling with a dealer. Of course, if I find something appropriate used in the mean time, I will happily buy it. Of course, low to zero % financing in a rapidly devaluing currency has some appeal, which is something a private party won't offer.

    R4 tires are part of the plan, and I plan on getting them loaded with beet juice (believe that's what the dealer uses) at the time of purchase. Appears these provide a wider track and a lower CG based on photos. Is there a standard amount of weight/volume they load the tires with, or is that variable based on how the tractor is configured? Also, does anyone know if chains will fit on this model with R4's without wheel spacers?

    Saw some great advice in another thread where a poster recommended having the dealer load the 3 point to see if the valve causes jerky operation before taking it home. That would be a fine time to object to that and ask them to repair/replace it before it leaves the facility.

  4. #24
    Elite Member
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    Jan 2011
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    2,509
    Location
    Fanning Springs, Gilchirst County, North-Central Florida
    Tractor
    Kubota Tractor Loader L3560 HST 37-hp / 5,400 pounds

    Default Re: 30-ish HP TLB Thoughts

    I have a 2011 kubota B3300SU tractor loader package.
    Kubota replaces a community-owned clapped out early-1980's Deere/Yanmar 750, 20hp.
    The Kubota B3300SU is quite compact and maneuverable while having enough power ( 33hp ) to pull 3-5" wild Muscadine grape vines out of the ground and out of large Water Oaks. The (clapped out) 20hp Deere/Yanmar could not accomplish these tasks except on the smallest vines.

    There is a lot of options these days for compact tractor buckets. Google "Bucket Solutions" and consider their $369 Quick Attach (Bucket) Spade. Perhaps you will not need a back hoe. I have this spade in transit and plan to post a video of it on Youtube digging out Mother Vines. Bucket Solutions also has quick attach/bolt on Debris Forks, which I own and use to scoop up vine debris and Water Oak debris into a MUTS dumping trailer, which I then pull to our community burn pile. The MUTS trailer is canadian built and of modular design. I use MUTS optional log arch, which displaces the bed, quite often for skidding heavy oak tree trunks over our community asphalt roads without road damage. I use a Wallenstein BX42 PTO drive chipper on the rear, to balance the FEL. I need to post a video of the Wallenstein chipping a 50' Muscadine vine in one slurp.

    Relative to (indispensable) bucket hooks Google "Ken's Bolt On Grab Hooks" in Westminster, Maryland. I have two of Ken's grab hooks bolted on my bucket and one bolted on my cross drawbar and they are completely satisfactory.

    Next, for what it is worth, one of the implement companies has THEIR direct comparison of the Kubota B3300SU and like sized John Deere 3032E tractor/loader package posted on Youtube. I found this Youtube comparison interesting.

    My two minor quibbles about the Kubota B3300SU package regard storage space. I use a 20' X 5/16" chain with grab and slip hooks every time the tractor goes out. There is no place to wrap them on the Kubota between uses. So I carry them in a plastic basket mounted under the ROPS....functions fine but looks pukey. We have a lot of rattlers in my part of Florida. I like to carry a 1917 S&W .45ACP revolver loaded with shot shells on the job. For this I have bolted a "thin/flat" 40mm ammo can on the frame, beneath the ROPS, which securely carries the revolver and a couple tools. I have a bicycle water bottle holder secured to the ROPS itself with two self tapping metal screws. "Polar" insulated cycling container keeps half a liter of liquid cold quite a while. I wish the B3300SU had more designed in storage.

    I hope this helps your decision.

    JBS
    Last edited by jeff9366; 02-27-2012 at 11:31 PM. Reason: clarity

  5. #25
    Elite Member
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    Jan 2011
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    Fanning Springs, Gilchirst County, North-Central Florida
    Tractor
    Kubota Tractor Loader L3560 HST 37-hp / 5,400 pounds

    Default Re: 30-ish HP TLB Thoughts

    Here are some pictures of my used-two-days Bucket Solutions Bucket Spade.

    My camera battery died after fourth photo --- RATS!

    Spade is HEAVY, I estimate 100 pounds. My 33-hp kubota B3300SU is not going to break it. Remained absolutely TIGHT during use.

    jeff9366
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -img_0305-jpg   -img_0306-jpg   -img_0307-jpg   -img_0310-jpg  

  6. #26
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Fanning Springs, Gilchirst County, North-Central Florida
    Tractor
    Kubota Tractor Loader L3560 HST 37-hp / 5,400 pounds

    Default Re: 30-ish HP TLB Thoughts

    Here are photos of my Debris Forks.
    Excellent accessory product for compact tractor bucket.

    Jeff9366
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -img_0312-jpg   -img_0313-jpg   -img_0314-jpg   -img_0317-jpg  
    Last edited by jeff9366; 03-26-2012 at 07:36 PM. Reason: clarity

  7. #27
    Bronze Member herefromthere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    59
    Location
    Wet Side of WA
    Tractor
    Kubota L3200HST 4WD, BH77 w/Mechanical Thumb, Land Pride BB1572 Box Scraper

    Default Re: 30-ish HP TLB Thoughts

    Pretty much decided based on what I've read here, visiting dealers of various makes, looking at videos, and sitting on machines that I want the kubota L3200. Started talking $ #'s with the dealer and found out that the Kubota "Build My Tractor" doesn't include things like freight and setup. Sales rep said the backhoe would take an entire day to set up/install. Options I'm looking at will include adding a mechanical thumb (bracket already there,) bucket level rod, telescoping stabilizer links, and rear work lights. They'll also be switching out the bucket to the SSQA with round back & cutting edge.

    How much is reasonable to expect to pay for freight plus setting up a tractor as configured above with front end loader and backhoe? Thoughts and your info/experiences would be much appreciated!

  8. #28
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    2,509
    Location
    Fanning Springs, Gilchirst County, North-Central Florida
    Tractor
    Kubota Tractor Loader L3560 HST 37-hp / 5,400 pounds

    Default Re: 30-ish HP TLB Thoughts

    I cannot give you a quality answer to your questions.
    Hopefully another reader can.
    Sorry,

    jbs9366

  9. #29
    Veteran Member rScotty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
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    Rural mountains - Colorado
    Tractor
    Many in the past. Today, a Kubota M59, JD530, 2 Yanmars - 16 & 33 hp, & a JD310SG

    Default Re: 30-ish HP TLB Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by herefromthere View Post
    Pretty much decided based on what I've read here, visiting dealers of various makes, looking at videos, and sitting on machines that I want the kubota L3200. Started talking $ #'s with the dealer and found out that the Kubota "Build My Tractor" doesn't include things like freight and setup. Sales rep said the backhoe would take an entire day to set up/install. Options I'm looking at will include adding a mechanical thumb (bracket already there,) bucket level rod, telescoping stabilizer links, and rear work lights. They'll also be switching out the bucket to the SSQA with round back & cutting edge.

    How much is reasonable to expect to pay for freight plus setting up a tractor as configured above with front end loader and backhoe? Thoughts and your info/experiences would be much appreciated!
    Have you tried an L3200? Be sure to do that and make sure it is enough tractor for your jobs. Very few people buy a smaller tractor the second time around. I wish I could help more, but don't know much about that model except I hear about a jerky 3 pt problem. Since I use the 3 pt so much on any tractor, that one "feature" would be a deal breaker for me. But might not for you. Which model of L3200 are you thinking about? I see a number of 3200s on tractorhouse.com. Also, Messicks is a source for some general Kubota info.

    As for mounting parts and pieces to the tractor, I've always figured that setup was part of the negotiable part of a tractor deal. Since my last two have been dealer's demos, the setup was already done. Generally there are some OEM parts like stabilizer links, work lights, and level rods which are simply put on when the tractor is taken out of the box. No real additional work there. Loaders can be more work to put on straight and true. Maybe a few hours there. Backhoes much the same with the 3 pt backhoes requiring almost no time and the frame-mounted ones taking all afternoon. You definitely want the frame mounted type....and of course that means no 3 pt, so maybe that takes care of the 3 pt problem. :-)
    enjoy, rScotty
    Pride of place goes to our 2 cylinder John Deer 530. With her loader, PS, clutched PTO, and remote hydraulics she's as modern & useful today as 50 years ago. And has a more comfortable seat, too.
    A Kubota M59 & a JD310SG for TLB work....giving us options on doing heavy jobs.
    We'll not forget Mr. Big & Mrs. Little - 33 & 16 hp Yanmars - now gone.
    And a line-up of well-used implements that still work better than they look.


  10. #30
    Bronze Member herefromthere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    59
    Location
    Wet Side of WA
    Tractor
    Kubota L3200HST 4WD, BH77 w/Mechanical Thumb, Land Pride BB1572 Box Scraper

    Default Re: 30-ish HP TLB Thoughts

    This is actually slightly larger than I feel is necessary already. Going down to a B3300SU or to the B3200/2920/2620/2320 chassis sizes would probably work for almost everything I'd be using it for, but it's very little additional in terms of price difference, and there are several items I like with the L3200 that I can't get on the others. The plan is an L3200 with 4wd, HST, R4's, BH77, SSQA HD round back bucket, and a few additional goodies. The backhoe on this unit is the quick attach subframe model. I am pretty uncomfortable with the concept of a 3-pt mount backhoe from what I've read on this site so far.

    As for the jerky hitch, I would test it before finalizing the sale. The dealer has said they will fix it if it is one of the jerky ones. It's worth the risk to me, and if I were to go with the B-series, then I'd have the 1/4 inching valve instead, where I'd prefer the position control.

    If anyone can pass on what's reasonable for freight and set up charges for the configuration I posted above, that would be great...thanks!

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