Tractor Sizing What do you use for logging? Prevent my divorce.

   / What do you use for logging? Prevent my divorce. #71  
If you plan on moving lots of logs then a skidder would be the way to go. But the argument is no different than saying you need a full size ag tractor to do field work.

The problem is that a skidder will never be anything more than a skidder, well maybe you could use it to pull a car out of a ditch. It was made to pull logs. A CUT was made to be multi purpose. It may not excel at skidding logs but at the ed of the day it will also drive a PTO generator, pull a plow, do loader work, and the list goes on and on. Before buying a skidder I would spend $20k on a dozer with a logging winch. At least the dozer could be used, well as a dozer.

I quickly looked at some pictures of the 5075 and it looks like the front drive shaft is real low. If so I would look elsewhere. The driveshaft on my Kubota is tucked up between the oil pan. There's very little that could get damaged by running over a log or rock. A stick could get pushed up into the tractor and break a wire or something like that though.
 
   / What do you use for logging? Prevent my divorce. #72  
Neighbour has a NH 7740 that has spent every winter in the woods. 12,000 hours on it I think last check? Rough cosmetically but in great shape mechanically. Its a 1998 model, it collected all the hours between 2000 and 2005 because it ran months at a time in the winter in the woods idling with the winch and sitting idling all night. It was used for haying and cultivating in the summer but only a few hours here and there. With the farm sizes here 1000 hours a year is high, its what a chore tractor at a good sized dairy here would get.

Beaten and abused cosmetically but not wore out . pulling timber is rough work but not hard compared to pulling a cultivator 16 hrs a day or shunting back and forth hundreds of times a day on a loader .
Wore out maybe from lack of maintenance but you are'nt going to get tractors doing 3000 hrs a year in the woods like you are on farms .
Wore out tractors get bought cheap to put on logging to end their days !
 
   / What do you use for logging? Prevent my divorce. #73  
Would you be open to multiple machines. Maybe something like a slightly older full size tractor and a old dozer. Pull an entire forest with the dozer. I'd say something like the John Deere 5410(and I only say it because I own one) and a 450D JD dozer(also have a couple hours on one that the local construction guy owns when I was leveling some land but he's since sold it). Both are excellent machines and would do way more than what you require.

Take a look at this:
450D Dozer - New UC and reinforced blade
1985 DEERE 450D Dozers - Crawler For Sale At MachineryTrader.com

Then you can find a nice utility tractor and get a great set up for at most $40k.

Just some food for thought:thumbsup:
 
   / What do you use for logging? Prevent my divorce. #74  
Neighbour has a NH 7740 that has spent every winter in the woods. 12,000 hours on it I think last check? Rough cosmetically but in great shape mechanically. Its a 1998 model, it collected all the hours between 2000 and 2005 because it ran months at a time in the winter in the woods idling with the winch and sitting idling all night. It was used for haying and cultivating in the summer but only a few hours here and there. With the farm sizes here 1000 hours a year is high, its what a chore tractor at a good sized dairy here would get.

Good choice of tractor ;)
 
   / What do you use for logging? Prevent my divorce. #75  
I bought my PT1850 partly because of the slopes but mainly because I can easily put duals on all 4 wheels. When i do this, the ground impact is the same as my utility atv. I need that low lbs per sq in because my trails are so wet. The conventional tractors I had were nice but they could not go down my trails except for a few days a year.

Ken
 
   / What do you use for logging? Prevent my divorce. #76  
I bought my PT1850 partly because of the slopes but mainly because I can easily put duals on all 4 wheels. When i do this, the ground impact is the same as my utility atv. I need that low lbs per sq in because my trails are so wet. The conventional tractors I had were nice but they could not go down my trails except for a few days a year.

Ken

Thats where tracks come in.:D:thumbsup::laughing:
 
   / What do you use for logging? Prevent my divorce. #77  
I apologize if this has been mentioned as I only skimmed previous posts.
I used to log for a living about 30 years ago and was worried I would be disappointed when I bought a winch to put on my 30 hp kubota gear tractor. I loved it. I since up graded to a 40 hp Mahindra but the only thing I did not need the extra power for was logging.
It is only 60 acres after all. A skidder is WAY over kill and way more machine then you need to maintain for you're application. A winch on your 28 hp tractor will be fine. Make a good trail system and get a self releasing block and you won't have to leave the trail. Proper felling and planing will be key.
I used chains on my Kubota on agg tires but do not on my Mahindra with R-4s. I'm just a little more selective as to when I go. Now I only cut 5 or 6 cords of fire wood a year but that's because that's all I need, not because that's all my set up can do. My current tractor works great for logging. I can haul more trees further, but I lost some maneuverability in the woods.
If you need an excuse to buy a tractor than go for it but I think i would buy a winch rated for, say a 25-45 hp tractor. That's what my Fransgard 3507 is rated for. Get a logging block and try it. If you still need to up grade to a bigger tractor your winch will work. If you need a bigger tractor than that for your operation then I completely misunderstood what you're doing.
Good luck, stay safe and keep us posted on what you decide.
Pictures would be nice!
Dan.
 
   / What do you use for logging? Prevent my divorce. #78  
I apologize if this has been mentioned as I only skimmed previous posts.
I used to log for a living about 30 years ago and was worried I would be disappointed when I bought a winch to put on my 30 hp kubota gear tractor. I loved it. I since up graded to a 40 hp Mahindra but the only thing I did not need the extra power for was logging.
It is only 60 acres after all. A skidder is WAY over kill and way more machine then you need to maintain for you're application. A winch on your 28 hp tractor will be fine. Make a good trail system and get a self releasing block and you won't have to leave the trail. Proper felling and planing will be key.
I used chains on my Kubota on agg tires but do not on my Mahindra with R-4s. I'm just a little more selective as to when I go. Now I only cut 5 or 6 cords of fire wood a year but that's because that's all I need, not because that's all my set up can do. My current tractor works great for logging. I can haul more trees further, but I lost some maneuverability in the woods.
If you need an excuse to buy a tractor than go for it but I think i would buy a winch rated for, say a 25-45 hp tractor. That's what my Fransgard 3507 is rated for. Get a logging block and try it. If you still need to up grade to a bigger tractor your winch will work. If you need a bigger tractor than that for your operation then I completely misunderstood what you're doing.
Good luck, stay safe and keep us posted on what you decide.
Pictures would be nice!
Dan.

+1 Pretty much my thoughts too, although a few more HP would be nice to get the most out of the winch and more weight to handle the larger wood.

Sean
 
   / What do you use for logging? Prevent my divorce. #79  
Kind of late to this thread BUTT
I am logging about 60 acres in my spare time.
Define "spare time". I just retired and still have not found any to speak of. Is "spare time" 1 weekend per month or from the first snowfall in September to the last snowfall in May?

60 acres of 20" trees should be left to grow (a stand density of about 50 trees/acre would be a good stand) to a mixed stand with some 36" trees for the children.

If the lot is fairly square you shouldn't have to haul anything much more than 1,000 feet. With proper planning and layout of a few trails you should be ablt to keep the dragging around to a minimum.

Most of what I pull is a mix of soft and hardwoods (max DBH of 20 inches) to be milled for my restoring my barns, firewood and timber management. I have a MF1428v (28 hp hydro) with R4 tires with rear chains, FEL and a skidding plate that does an admirable job for what it is but I know I need something bigger for both safety and efficiency.

As others have mentioned I think you can probably get by with what you've got with the addition of a log arch, a log winch (like a Farmi) and some good trails. See http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ng/152433-b7610-owners-whats-biggest-log.html. An advantage of a smaller tractor is less impact on the land, easier to move between trees. Your MF w/ a log arch and a winch should be able to handle 20" DBH delimbed trees easily, one at a time. A tractor twice the size will allow you to handle MORE 20" trees at one time, but won't help you move a 40" tree you don't have. And will require almost twice the space to maneuver.

I do need a FEL for loader work around the barn and to move snow and therefore would like a shuttle shift or Hydro. I do need 4WD/MFWD given snow removal and how wet the property is.
Snow? FEL?
Unless you live in a section of Vermont I'm not familiar with you could probably use a snowblower on your tractor VERY effectively. On my little 73 acre plot north of Cambridge I've seen snowfalls of 30".
And to me a tractor without a FEL is very limited (just got loaned one).
SO..here are my questions:
What are people using in the woods?
Anything they've got :)
What wheelbase?
I don't think it's so much wheelbase as track.
I'd suggest nothing over 50 for you.
What weight?
Due to your swamp condition I'd say lighter is better.
R1, R1W, R4 with chains?
Whatever but definitely chains.
Metal fenders only or will a fiberglass tolerate the loose chain thwack.
Metal
Exposed drive shafts, hydraulic lines and diesel tanks need to be up-armored?
Only if you are going to drive it off pavement :)
One of the tractors has only three reverse gears. Is that a problem?
Nope
I am buying a winch. How does that figure into any of the above?
Depends on the size of the the winch, get one to get your tractor unstuck, and one to pull logs.
I have too small a tractor but can I get too big a tractor?
Definitely, my uncle in law wanted to know if I wanted to borrow his 100HP(?) JD. I could not imagine trying to maneuver that thru the woods.

I need the input from those of you in the know.
If there is something I am completely forgetting please tell me.
If some of these are idiotic concerns feel free to call me on it.
My deadline is December 31st as I have been threatened with marital counseling ("Will you just buy the **** tractor already").
I will let you know what I buy and of course I know I am required to post pictures.
Thanks in advance. -R
Counseling will cost less than $$ spent on the wrong size tractor.
 
   / What do you use for logging? Prevent my divorce. #80  
1. Their is such a diversity of what people use and where they are as to become meaningless as a decision making process. You are in New England with many ground obstructions and contours. This necessitates a tractor that is not too large or small and preferably one that is low slung such as an orchard tractor to get your gravity center lower. You also want a tractor with strong front end components as they take a beating when in the wood.
2. Wheel bases will equal out to the size of the tractor. Not such an issue or not as much of an issue as tire track width as you want lateral stability.
3. Hp is also not an issue as most tractors will not allow you to use up HP before you lose traction. Weight is your friend here. Hp comes more into play when using implements off the pto. Whatever size tractor you get will have the right hp.
4. You want heavy. 3500# and up. But you want low cog more importantly.
5.Definitely chains. You can put chains on turf tires and have a different tractor traction wise. Tire choice will more depend on where you plan to bring your tractor to the most whether for grass cutting, ground engagement, hard or paved surfaces. etc. If it is primarily a woods tractor with mud, you want floatation that a wider tire will provide. Most if not all my logging is done in the snow or at least when the ground freezes. I have R1's as they also give the most ground clearance. Whatever tire you choose, get them weighted and chained.
6. Metal fenders preferable and not because of chain thwack but more for that sapling that gets stuck in your tire track and comes around between the tire and fender. Just bang the fender out.
7. Driveshaft not so much but hydro lines up and out of the way. Tie rods take quite the beating and need the most protection.
8. No
9. One of the best things you can buy for your purpose. Actually its the other way around with the tractor you get controlling winch capacity. If anything a winch mitigates the beating the tractor gets in comparison to that tractor with no winch.
10. Absolutely especially if the tractor is getting higher and higher as it is getting bigger.
Ideally your tractor will have more than a single rops. I am not talking about a cab but more of a cage. Not having falling timber protection is one of the largest arguments for those who think a tractor has no business logging. Also, it is not a good idea to skid with your winch line.

In general you want a low,heavy 4wd tractor with a good dealer to back you up.
Look at how skidders are built and how low they sit on their axles.
Nice post!:thumbsup: And always park your tractor 1.5 times the height of the tree away from it when felling
 
 
Top