Tractor and Excavator OR Tractor with backhoe...

[couchsachraga]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, but I"m sure it's been thought about!

I have a 33hp diesel 4wd shuttle shift tractor from the 80's right now, and an old 9 ton backhoe. I expect to sell both in the spring with any luck (backhoe there is serious interest in, tractor I may trade in).

I have use for a backhoe still, but need to be able to get in to some tighter spots, and over some softer areas where my 9 ton 2wd machine just isn't going to go, either size wise or without making a royal mess... and potentially needing a friend with a dozer to pull me out!

My initial thought was a tractor (leaning towards a JD4520 with cab) with a backhoe attachment (and hydraulic thumb). My uses are pretty minimal - stumps on occasion (not frequent) installing or replacing a culvert now and then, cleaning ditches out after storms (and culverts) mostly. Likely pulling the odd rock up too (we have lots of those...).

What gives me pause is I'm used to a backhoe with 8k pounds of breakout force... not 2k.... Stumps will undoubtably take longer, but it will be rare it's a big stump so I'm not that concerned.

I've started looking at excavators, but it seems most are really expensive, or really beat! For a big job I can always rent (or borrow my backhoe back if it is near the road ).

Has anyone gone through this thought process yourself, what did you decide, and why?

Property wise it's 1+ mile of road plus several miles of ski / snowmobile trails, 200+ acres (mostly woods, but 5+ acres of field with another 10 of beaver swamp (or my own personal mosquito breeding ground as I like to call it)) in the Adirondacks up upstate NY. Lots of rocks, some ledge, hills, etc....

$ wise I am fortunate enough that I'm working and have some discretionary funds each month that could go towards a payment on something. I don't think I'd get both the tractor and excavator at the same time (if I went that route), but once the tractor was paid off, or if I had a particularly good year, I could likely get a used mini-ex (10-12k lb machine is my thought, though I'm tempted by bigger).


Thank you all for your thoughts, and Happy Holidays!

 

[jenkinsph]

I have the 4520 cab and a 110tlb to do similar work as you mention. I like the excavators alot with the exception of moving them around on larger properties, the excavators are VERY slow if you need to travel a distance.

As much as I like the my two machines I would suggest you consider a Kubota M59 tlb. This would be the same power as the 4520 and you can equip it with topntilt 3ph, skid steer quick attach buckets and grapple. The hoe is better than most attachment models by all major brands.

I really like the 4520 and 110 both have done a good job for me and I have cabs on both units. The M59 has the power of a 4520 with the same benefits of a 110. I also like the Cat 305 series mini excavator, very nice machine.

 

[20 20]

I can only say what I did, every body is different. I had a tractor with BH, did lots of work with it. I kept the tractor got rid of the BH, did crazy amounts of looking{machinery trader, craigs list, ebay, etc} and bought an excavator. I will NEVER go back to a BH having the two seperate machines is awesome to say the least. Smaller excavators will out dig bigger BH hands down, plus they are more versitale, and can easily go places a BH can't. Like I wrote "I" will never go back to a BH, but there are those that may feel different. I use my excavator for logging, stump removal, pond digging/dredging, stacking logs/rocks and so on. The only problem I had with owning an excavator is that..................I didn't do it MUCH SOONER.

 

[Will_C]

I have never thought the concept through with the size machines you are considering- but I went through the process when I bought my B2620. A backhoe would have added $6500 to the cost of the machine. I looked at several used mini-excavators that were in decent shape for $10-12K. Even the smallest models have significantly more capacity than the hoe for the 2620.

I did not buy the hoe, and have not bought an excavator yet, but if I feel the need to dig (I am fortunate, my brother is an excavating contarctor and will do anything I need with his Case backhoe), I'll purchase an excavator.

Will

 

[dsgsr]

I had the same needs essentially. Have a 2000 JD 4700 that had a JD #48 backhoe on it. I wanted a 12K mini-Excavator but also needed to replace the JD. I couldn't afford both, so I bought the Kubota M59 which is a happy medium. The M59 has the breakout force 7600 lbs of a mini-x and reach 12-feet but can also be a tractor with 3-pth for bushhoging, landscape raking, logging with a 3-pt winch and so on. So what I decided was a tractor can be a tractor and an excavator but an excavator can't be a tractor.


David

 

[couchsachraga]

Sounds like I was right - lots of you have been in my shoes before me

At the moment I"m leaning towards a tractor with backhoe, then if I find that's not enough (my projects get bigger again, for instance) get an excavator.

I've assumed a loaded with what I'm looking for (hoe and remotes, plus extra circuits front and rear and a replacement grapple), cabbed 4520 will run about 60k including tax in NYS.

Dare I ask what an M59 goes for? I've been reading threads here all evening and noted someone say that started around 50k, but that's no cab, 3ph, remotes, etc....

I will say I've always wanted a Deere, but the place my grandfather bought his IH's from decades ago is now a Kubota dealer (Salem).

20 20 - what area are you in? I'm the greater Johnsburg area....

Thank you all for your replies!

 

[jenkinsph]

Here is my take on the 4520, it is a great tractor for 3ph work, plenty of power and the ehydro is great. Can not beat the cab on this tractor either
Mine is setup with six front weights and six rear wheel weights making it compact yet powerful for boxblade and other ground engaging tasks. I do alot of work in close quarters and being short and compact are a plus for me.

The 400cx fel is not as heavy duty as the 110 fixed mount fel and about half the capability of the M59.

I like having a tlb separate from my tractors since I can switch between them without changing implements or attachments. Just compare the loader specs before you buy. Nothing wrong with having a separate excavator and tractor but it will cost alot more.

 

[couchsachraga]

The vast majority of the work I'll be doing will be with the tractor - mowing, loading logs on to the mill the the grapple, up keeping the road and trails (box blade / offsetting back blade and land scape rake, and I plan on getting a land plane next year regardless). That is one of the reasons I question whether the added expense is worth it - I don't have a tremendous use for a hoe, though I like to have one around, especially for cleaning out ditches and culverts (and the odd rock that has grown).

I like the looks of the M59 the more I read about it... I wish it was cheaper, and a Deere! I like the two-peddle vs the treadle, and I prefer the Deere cab. I haven't seen a Laurin though.

 

[jenkinsph]

I have a Laurin cab on my 110tlb and am well satisfied with it but they are costly imo. A 110tlb with a Laurin cab is hard to find but should do everything you mentioned, at least it works well for me doing those same jobs. I mentioned the M59 because you specified a 60 hp tractor with the 4520. really a 110tlb or a Kubota M59 would both serve your purposes imo. The 110tlb regretfully is out of production as of this year while the M59 is still being built currently.

I use my 4520 for most of my 3ph work and built my own landplane/grader 8ft wide and stright set blades for ground leveling and smoothing. I use a heavy duty Frontier BB1284 box blade 1250 lbs and this works well with the tractor size. I also built a 3ph spike tooth harrow 8ft wide. Cost for the landplane materials with good quality reversible blades was about $900 and weighs about 950 lbs. The harrow materials with everything was about $250.

Some pics,
110 with Laurin cab and front work platform home built
4520 cab with boxblade and topntilt
4520 with home built landplane
home built harrow

 

[couchsachraga]

Great work! I would have never guessed the scraper wasn't a production piece of equipment.

There is a 110 with cab for sale used a few hours away. Though I usually always purchased used I'm leaning towards new in this case, as I plan to keep it a long time and would prefer to know the history and not have a machine that was abused (and most of the ones for sale seem suspect (the 110's) being rentals or machines worked hard daily.