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  1. #21
    Epic Contributor Bird's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hydro vs Geared

    Murph, I think a lot of people have learned the same lesson over the years about the automatic vs. manual cars and pickups. For many years, the City of Dallas would not buy an automatic transmission vehicle; too expensive to repair. Then someone finally wised up to the fact that, yes, they're more expensive when you have to repair them, but you don't have to repair them nearly as often. They even figured out how to add a hydraulic pump run by a belt off the engine to run the packers on the garbage trucks with automatic transmissions instead of using manual transmissions with a PTO.

    I have some doubts that the hydro tractors have been around long enough yet to determine for sure whether they'll cost less in the long run (20 to 50 years), but if I had to place a bet, I'm bettin' the hydro will be cheaper in the long run.

  2. #22
    Silver Member MODiesel's Avatar
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    Missouri, USA
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    Kubota L5030HSTC

    Default Re: Hydro vs Geared

    Bird:

    Combines have been using Hydro for years. I don't even recall when they became popular on combines, but I think that's a fair application considering the weight of a loaded combine.

    Honestly, hydro is not that complicated. I would that getting to the hydro components might be the biggest part of any repairs.

    Best Regards,
    Jay

  3. #23
    Epic Contributor Soundguy's Avatar
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    Mar 2002
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    ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC

    Default Re: Hydro vs Geared

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( to back up the pto briefly disengages until you let the clutch back out. )</font>

    Oh.. I gotcha. I'm spoiled by the 2 stage clutch in my 1920... just clutch to first peg, and can shift, stop, etc with pto still going..

    Soundguy

  4. #24
    Epic Contributor Soundguy's Avatar
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    ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC

    Default Re: Hydro vs Geared

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( have been led to believe that a hydro transmission, due to the very nature of its design , is destined to "wear" out. Now, hold on, I'm aware of the fact that the gears in any transmission will wear out in the really )</font>

    Keep in mind that a clutch in a gear tractor is a 'designed' to wear item as well.

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( Was this inflammatory rhetoric designed to steer me away from hydros? Is this long time a *really* long time, like 20-30 years or normal use? )</font>

    I think the issue is that if you look at the collective tractor experience in the long term like you mention.. gear tractors have been built since way back... Many of us here are still working 30's 40's and 50's era tractors as our regular farm tractor.... We know about what to expect out of a gear tranny.. and about how long the life span is...

    Problem is we can't speculate as much on hydro's on farm tractors as there is less colective long term experience about them.. there weren't any hydro tranny ford 9n's in 1939 to compare to the gear model 9n in 1939 for us to do the apples to apples comparison with... for loengevity purposes.

    I don't think anyone is trying to steer you any particular way.. each of us is giveing you our experiences on our particular equipment weve used.. and what we observed and liked / didn't like. Etc.

    In the end, the choice will be between you and your wallet, and will be based on what you want to do with your tractor. Bottom line... both are good units, and it will be hard to lose either way... one is just better suited for a specific purpose than the other... but both will work..

    Good luck!

    Soundguy


  5. #25
    Epic Contributor Soundguy's Avatar
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    ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC

    Default Re: Hydro vs Geared

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( But thinking about self-wrenching on a hydro 15 or 20 years from now scares the willies out of me )</font>

    I see your point.. but then.. for instance.. I own a 52 8n tractor.. earlier this year I had to tear down the steering box to replace a broke shaft.. didn't know whether I was up to it... deffinately wouldn't have considered it 2 years ago, or before i was reading here. I imagine in 20 or 30 years if you still have that tractor and the hydro goes out in it, it will be similar to us finding parts for our antique tractors, and just fixing it.. as by that time.. that will be 'old technology'... we might even be sitting around talking like " Yep.. I remember when all the trannies were like that back in the early 00's.. etc.. etc..
    In 20 or 30 years.. you'll pick up more tractor 'wrenchin' skills...

    Soundguy

  6. #26
    Elite Member thcri's Avatar
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    Minnesota SE
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    New Holland TC29D, 2001

    Default Re: Hydro vs Geared

    You know when I come to think about it, back when I was 10 years old I use to help me neighbor some, he delivered International Harvestor tractors for a living. I always got to drive the Cub Cadets. They had a Hydro-static model back then. That would be in the mid 60's. Hmm maybe that is where I got my desire to have a tractor.

    murph

  7. #27
    Gold Member
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    Apr 2003
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    Grayson County TX
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    Kioti DK35

    Default Re: Hydro vs Geared

    ( Keep in mind that a clutch in a gear tractor is a 'designed' to wear item as well. )

    Yes, but anybody can replace a clutch - and a clutch plate costs little to make or buy [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    My question was more about exactly *how* a hydro works. It is not anything like an automatic transmission according to what I've been told. The beauty of an auto trans is not in the trans so much as the torque converter, which I've been told does not exist in a hydro trans. I agree that an auto trans is overall less a reliability issue in cars, but I'm not sure the comparison is very analogous.

    This is largely academic for me, as I'm stretching myself to buy a new tractor and a hydro is simply out of reach price wise. But I was interested in exactly *how* they work. I know they use hydraulics but I don't know much more...

  8. #28
    Epic Contributor Bird's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hydro vs Geared

    Sendro, when I bought my last kubota, I also ordered the Workshop Manual and the Illustrated Parts List, which I'd recommend anyone do. You really need both of them together. I don't know that I could find it, but there have been some discussions in the past on the forum, including some drawings of the working of the hydro and I think it's less complicated than a car automatic, but can't say for sure because I've never actually had to tear either one down.

  9. #29
    Elite Member
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    western,pa.
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    Kioti DK 35

    Default Re: Hydro vs Geared

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( . My neighbor has a geared tractor and whenever he has to reverse he has to cut out his PTO, shift, reverse, shift again to forward, then go again.

    With my hydro, I just stomp on the "back" pedal and I'm going backwards, PTO still running strong, and then hit the "forward" pedal and I'm going again. )</font>

    This is true about gear models without live PTO.
    My DK 35 has shuttle shift and Independant PTO.
    To reverse I flip a lever on the steering column with my finger tips, to go forward I flip it to forward with my finger tips. PTO (still going strong) does not shut off .

  10. #30
    Silver Member MODiesel's Avatar
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    Missouri, USA
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    Kubota L5030HSTC

    Default Re: Hydro vs Geared

    Sendero:

    I've found the following link to have the most comprehensible explanation of how Hydro works:

    Click Here

    Best Regards,
    Jay

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