Kubota B3300SU OR Kioti DS4510/CK35?

[KoolKiwi]

Greetings my fine fellow tractor owners,

My first post here...so be gentle

I currently have an Eastwind Branded Chinese tractor (Dongfeng) - 25Hp, 4:1 bucket and LW6 backhoe. I'm in the process of upgrading to something with more HP so it's easier on the tractor running a rotary hoe.

I have been looking at 3 brands - Kioti, Kubota, TYM. I have dismissed the TYM brand for several reasons - namely poor trade-in price, lots of plastic, unknown resale value and brand commitment? Fewer dealers. (Looks like a nice tractor though - and they didn't have the model I wanted in stock - T353HST)

Kioti is a fantastic tractor. I have dismissed the DS3510 (too small in the operator area and has a small bucket. I didn't like the control placement)

Yesterday I looked at a DS4510. Wow...what a lot of tractor for the money. It's bigger than I need or probably want, but I can see the benefits. It drives nicely, has a great operator area and the salesman sells heaps of them (compared to the DS3510), so better resale. The loader has a wicked rating and it has a huge bucket. I'd like to see and drive a CK35HST (they don't have one in stock)

I've also looked at a Kubota B3300SU. What a neat little tractor. It's the only HST I've driven and I can see the benefits of it doing slashing and FEL work. I worry about longevity, and the price of fuel being run at full noise all the time. It's also very light compared to the Kioti's. It doesn't come with a cruise control, but they said they would fit one free of charge (mechanical). It comes with either Ag tyres or Turf's. I like the turfs, but worry about traction. I had a smile on my face all the time I was driving it. Even my wife thought it was kool!

We have 6 acres. We are converting it from paddocks into garden. I'm currently doing lots of rotary hoe and FEL work, but this will fall off as what get it planted. I also use a 6' rear blade a lot for contouring. The turf's will be great once it's a completed garden

I am still waiting on an appraisal from Kubota (Next week hopefully), so their deal is unknown at present.

The DS4510 is at a great price for the tractor (on Ag Tyres). The CK35HST (on Ag's) is only $1000 more, but an extra $2900 approx for turfs or Industrials. Eek!!

So...who has driven both the DS4510 and the CK35HST? Will I like the HST better than manual?? What problems are there? What are the extension arms on the CK35?

A lot have said the dealer will make the difference. I don't know either of them. I service my own tractor and brought it 2nd hand (1st one). The Kubota dealer is 35mins away, the Kioti only 15mins away). The Kioti dealers service charge is very high compared to Kubota. The B3300 has only about 14 litres of oil in the trans - less then half the Kioti, so cheaper to service, but it requires service every 200 hours compared to 250 hours. It is a budget tractor so is limited in features. (Mid PTO is an option)

The Kubota would suit us better once the garden is complete, the Kioti better while doing it. The Kioti will damage the lawn, is much bigger and will probably end up being more expensive - especially with Ind/Turfs. It'll cost more to service.

The B3300SU is the only Kubota I've looked at - all the rest are too expensive (like $40K+) We have limited models here in New Zealand. The Kioti also have only a few models. CK22HST (too small I think), CK35HST, DS35/4510. The only DK model is the DK551 - too much money. 45Hp is the biggest I would go. Here is the range hereProducts | Kioti Daedong Tractors | Brought to you by Power Farming

Hope the post isn't too long. Tired to give us much info as possible. Really appreciate the input, as I've probably forgotten something. :thumbsup:

 

[Gittyup]

If u like the b3300 u will love the ck35 HST.

 

[k0ua]

I can help only a little:

Will I like the HST better than manual?? What problems are there? What are the extension arms on the CK35?

Yes you will love the HST. Best for anything you have to do where you need more control or slow speed and repetitive tasks like loader work.
There are no real problems with hydrostat, Some make a little whining noise when worked hard, they produce a little extra heat, and they are worth every penny spent..

The telescoping lower lower links and anti-sway bars make hookup on the 3pt so much easier. Just back up close, to the pins and get off and press down on the latch's, extend the arms by hand and remove the sway bars pins so that you can swing the arms wide over the drawpins on the implement. Once the balls are slipped over the pins, move the tractor slightly in reverse and listen for the "click click" of the lower links automatically latching back in. Set your sway bars by finding an appropriate hole for the retainer pins on each side and putting on your top link and adjusting your implement as you desire.

James K0UA

 

[DK35vince]

Will I like the HST better than manual?

Depends on the operator.
Many here prefer the HST.
I've used a freinds DK 35 HST several times.
The HST is nice and really easy to use, but I can't say I liked it better than the shuttle shift on my DK 35.

 

[KoolKiwi]

If u like the b3300 u will love the ck35 HST.

Yeah...it's also the most expensive of the three. :laughing:

James - Thx for the input of the telescoping arms. I added some aftermarket doodahs' to my DF254 that make it a QuickHitch - back straight up under the lower pins and lift and they spring-load clip on. Get off and do the top link only. All that stuff on the CK35HST sure looks good though.

I wasn't prepared for the noise the HST makes. I always wear grade5 earmuffs when I work, but didn't have them for the dealer. They sure do whine. I also noticed some surging, but that could be operator error

DK35vince - The DS4510 has a Shuttle shift. It was very nice after a straight manual trans. I could definitely live with it. Constant mesh wasn't as good as I thought though - the brochure wrongly states it's syncro, but that's the HS model. I like the layout of the DS4510 as well - very easy to use.

I did like the ease of use with the Kubota - slam on some throttle and away you go. Going full noise all the time is something I'm not used to. Guess you have to keep up the hyd. pressure. I rarely go over 1800rpm on my DF254.

Does anyone know if the Cruise Control on the CK35HST works in reverse? The TYM tractor has a push button for the cruise - worked in both directions. It's the only thing I would've like from that particular machine.

The Kioti dealer won't like me asking him to get a CK35HST in just to test drive - already thinks I'm an old-woman (no offence to old women intended from me ) The closet one is 6 hours away by car - too far to go and see. I'll wait and see what Kubota have as a deal before I press that drama.

I have heard that Kubota likes to shaft you for spare parts?? Kioti could be the same for all I know :confused2:

Do you think turfs would have enough traction? Everyone seems to have Ag tyres here. The TYM came stock with Industrials, and the Kubota had either Ag's or Turfs for the same price. Sure wish I could test some Turfs in a real situation. I've got Ag's on my tractor - sure can make a mess at times. (Update: Just read a 1000 posts about tyres. Lots of opinions!! I think turfs will get the job done. Ideal would be some Ag's and a set of turfs on rims as well. Sounds expensive!)
Thx

 

[namesray]

hello and welcome to tbn. i am a kubota owner, but will try not to sway you just to kubota. i own a b7800. very simular tractor to the b3300su. i use mine in my small business (firewood/landscaping). mine has just about 900 hours on it and still going very strong (put over 300 hours just last year). have had only couple minor problems along the way (ex: cracked tube 3ph line= my fault;fixed under warrenty, leaky control valve=my fault;fixed under warrenty). i was ramming a bit too much with it when i had these problems.

i don't know much about kioti's, but what little i have looked at, they do look like very nice tractors, even a bit more tractor for the money compared to kubota. but i don't know what brand engine in them or about longevity/durability. they probably would be just fine, as they even resemble a kubota quite a bit. biggest thing between the 2, like you said is tractor weight. like i said, i use mine to skid logs (firewood) and it isn't the best tractor for the job, as heavier would pull more easier, but it always gets the job done and i have pulled some pretty big logs for a 2600lb tractor with fel. heck, it handles a 7000lb pulling capacity 3ph winch with ease.

i have also moved tons and tons of dirt and stone with mine (landscaping). leveled ground for peoples sheds, even some out of side hills. cut a 100ft driveway in out of a side hill too. i have the rear tires loaded and get along great. i also plow multiple driveways in the neighborhood in the winter with it. these are just some examples.

i have been around kubota equipment most my short life. where i work now (state transportation dept), they have kubota engines in some of their equipment. (i do seem to see a lot of kubota engines in industrial equipment!)worked at a golf course for 6 years and most their equipment had kubota engines in them. one was a kubota L-series tractor. i have seen those engines take HARD abuse and make it to 2500 hours, rebuilt and keep on going. those run hst and were at high rev all the time. (b7800/b3300su=v1505 4 cynder diesel engine, mine uses about a gallon of fuel per hour and i run 2300rpm). so longevity is not an issue with kubota with proper maintenance. my b7800 has almost 900 hours and NO trouble with the hst either.

the b3300su is the largest of the b series. can put oversized r-4 (industrial) tires on it and gain about 200lbs. if i had to bet, you could get your "heavy duty" prep work done with the b3300su and then like you said the kubota would be better on the lawn and such for everything after. i have r-4 tires on my b7800 and don't tear the lawns up much at all. just use a little common sence and you will be fine. if you want a mid pto go with the b3200 as that has one. (will you need a mid mount mower???)

if weight is still an issue, the kubota L series (L3400 maybe) would match up with the kioti better. about the same price as the b3300su. (i have been pricing in my area lately as i am looking at buying a b3300su for my business.) but with the L series you give up the mid pto if you needed it. not sure it the ck35 had a mid pto.

one thing to consider, which is a factor, the kubota b series uses the 1/4 inching valve on the 3ph as the kioti has position control. 1/4 valve will very slowly leak down so you have to bump it up every 20 minutes or so to maintain 3ph height. (like when i bush hog for people, i have to just bump the 3ph up just a bit about every 20 minutes). no big deal to me, but might be for you. position control will maintain its height on its own.

really you should test drive each one. even if the dealer doesn't have your exact model in stock, get on a simular one and run all the controls. it should be very simular between simular tractors. get a feel for what one you like best. that will be the biggest deciding factor. by the way, i am not good with exchange rates, but here in my area b3300su is around $16,000-$17,000 in us dollars. i think either tractor would be fine. it just comes down to what you need most out of the tractor. good luck and enjoy shopping around.

 

[kiotiken]

I did like the ease of use with the Kubota - slam on some throttle and away you go. Going full noise all the time is something I'm not used to. Guess you have to keep up the hyd. pressure. I rarely go over 1800rpm on my DF254.

Does anyone know if the Cruise Control on the CK35HST works in reverse?

The Kioti dealer won't like me asking him to get a CK35HST in just to test drive - already thinks I'm an old-woman (no offence to old women intended from me ) The closet one is 6 hours away by car - too far to go and see. I'll wait and see what Kubota have as a deal before I press that drama.

I have heard that Kubota likes to shaft you for spare parts?? Kioti could be the same for all I know :confused2:

Do you think turfs would have enough traction? Everyone seems to have Ag tyres here. The TYM came stock with Industrials, and the Kubota had either Ag's or Turfs for the same price.
Thx

The first thing I'll say is that it's not a fair comparison between the CK35 and the B3300, even if they are close in hp. Even though Kubota tries to use the B line to compare to the CK line (my Kubota dealer did anyway and it's all to do with price), you need to compare the CK line to the Kubota L line for specs and the Grand L for features. As far as the DS line goes, I don't know much about it, my dealer doesn't seem to stock any of them and I never really looked at them.

I looked at the link you provided. The CK35 is different than the CK27/30/35 that we have in North America, some of the nice features seem to be missing, including the stabilizer bars on the back, you'd get stabilizer links.

Regardless of some differences in features, cruse control doesn't work in reverse for any of us, there a few threads about that.

Kioti parts (here anway) are much more reasonable than Kubota parts. For example, the second rear remote that I added was $500 installed, but there were lots of people complaining on TBN that the Kubota kit was over $1000.

As far as HST goes, it's great, but yes, the RPM's are always high. To get away from that, you'd have to look at the Kubota HST+ system, but that's only in the Grand L and above and will cost you lots of $$$$$. I find the Kubota hst whine very loud (I hear more whine than engine noise from my neighbour) as it was on my JD 955. As for my CK30, you don't really hear anything except maybe a little when it's cold.

As far as choosing between the Kioti and Kubota, I think you already know what you need to make that decision, and they are both great tractors. The Kubota is smaller and light and will be better for the lawn, the Kioti will be bigger and heavy and better for bigger work. That is exactly why I made the choice that I did.

 

[kiotiken]

Now I'm more confused. Using the link you provided, the .pdf brochure available from Kioti New Zealand is different from the model shown under the CK35 product page on their web page. The e-brochure shows the same tractor we have here, the web page certainly doesn't. The e-brochure also shows the CK27/30 as well as CK35.

 

[IndyIan]

Do you think turfs would have enough traction? Everyone seems to have Ag tyres here. The TYM came stock with Industrials, and the Kubota had either Ag's or Turfs for the same price. Sure wish I could test some Turfs in a real situation. I've got Ag's on my tractor - sure can make a mess at times. (Update: Just read a 1000 posts about tyres. Lots of opinions!! I think turfs will get the job done. Ideal would be some Ag's and a set of turfs on rims as well. Sounds expensive!)
Thx

I think I read in one of the 1000 posts about someone putting chains on their turf tires if they wanted to do some heavy pulling or for snow as well. So thats a bit cheaper option than a new tire set...
I like my DK40 which is pretty similar to the DS4510. I'm moving lots of dirt at the moment so I like the loader power and weight of the tractor. I have Ag's though and my lawn is off limits with those!

 

[KoolKiwi]

namesray - Great post - Thx. Very informative. It's impossible to get a machine that does it all. The best would be two machines, but that is out of the question for us. I loved the DS4510 - would get some wicked work done with that. Downsides are it's height to fit in the barn, it's massive weight and it's a long tractor with FEL out the front. Seems bigger than I actually need, even though the money is right.

Yep...realise the Kubtoa has a 1/4 inching value. It's a stepup from what I've got, so not an issue. I'd never heard of a Positioning Valve until reading this forum.

Here in NZ...the B3300SU has the option of a Mid-PTO. Not sure I need one though. I like a back mounted mower - better for doing corners. And a lawn tractor is probably better long term. Again, like Kioti, Kubota NZ only brings in a very small selection of tractors (see here Norwood - Kubota Use Tractors under 60 Hp link). The web site hasn't been updated in a while, so some of the models are no longer available.

I've taken the B3300SU for a drive - very nice. Small, zippy ideal for when the tough stuff is done. And...the specs (HP, FEL, Hydraulics) are better than our Eastwind tractor, so I know it'll do the job. I love the turning lock - way better than my DF254.

Wish our prices were that low. The kubota is $32700.00 (on special) ! Now image if you had to pay that in your currency, so you can now imagine how we feel! :shocked: The next step up are all mid-$40k. The Kioti CK35 is $1000 more than the B3300SU. :shocked::shocked:

kiotiken - Absolutely right it's not a fair comparison - the tractors are worlds apart. The reality is that many of the models you guys take for granted just aren't available here. The market is just too small. I was really keen on the DS3510 - a budget 35 HP tractor. When I drove it I didn't like it - too small, operator controls didn't feel right, so the dealer said, why would you want the 35HP when the 45HP (DS4510) is so much more tractor?? He's right. For $4000K more, it's a way better fit, but it's only $1000 less than the CK35 (which they don't have in stock, so I can't see one). I want to see one, but won't push for it until I get the numbers on the Kubota.

As for the website links - yeah...dealers here being cheap! I just noticed the image doesn't show the telescopic bars and stuff. Have to check on that. The brochure I have definitely shows them.

Pity about the reverse cruise as well. That's something the TYM had going for it.

IndyIan - read a lot about the Ag Vs Industrial Vs Turf. Difficult to get a definitive answer without actually doing something with each type. My tractor has Ag's - great for lots of things, but do they make a mess. I've already killed the original front tyres on the machine from using the FEL. Sidewalls are next to useless. Being narrow, they also sink into soft/wet ground a long way.

The B3300SU had Turfs on it when I drove it. This forum shows lots of guys use them for all sorts of tasks. Some say they wouldn't have anything else. The industrials for this tractor cost $500+ more. Our property is mainly flat - a couple of small slopes (but no hills). For the moment I'm doing a lot of work in rotary hoed dirt - only 180mm deep, so not sure about the Turfs pulling a blade through that. I feel in 4WD they'll do the job. I doubt the dealer will let me swap them out if I'm not happy with them. I wonder if they have a demo available?? We don't have snow to worry about, so that's a bonus. Once the garden plants how been planted the tractor will basic only be mowing the outside tract of land (maybe??), grading and re-metalling the drive and doing the odd job. Don't think I could be bothered with chains.

I know the dealer can make a big difference. For Kubota, they are actually Kubota New Zealand - so are the importers of the product. They do do other brands though, as does the Kioti dealer - who is also the Kioti importer.

I'm leaning toward the B3300SU at this point, but the numbers will be the defining thing. If they match the trade-in price on my tractor, there won't be a lot in it money wise. Thx again and much appreciated.

PS - I wonder if there is an aftermarket push button cruise control that allows forward and reverse cruise???

How does the mechanical cruise work on the Kubota??