Going to buy a tractor....Between Kubota and JD....which one is more american made

   / Going to buy a tractor....Between Kubota and JD....which one is more american made #71  
I don't believe I am. Features are just a part of quality!

How is outsourcing harder to watch for quality? My experience is the opposite. The quality control over outsourced things is easier to control as if you get poor parts, you can easily switch providers (as mentioned), and the parent company is not liable for the parts and can get some if not all of the money back they lost in the poor parts.

I highly doubt that you have salesmen coming into your dealership saying carry our line of product because they are junk, so you will have them back in here for repairs and buy a new product! If so, they are pretty poor salesmen and I hope you won't fall for that pitch. QUOTE]

When the machines use outsourced parts when it comes to warrantee there is instant red flags all over and most have to be shipped back and it takes more to get authorization to get approvals. Most dealer will tell you that! Exceptions to warrantee's becuase of these parts are normally not going to happen vs in house manufactuered parts go along alot easier. How well the builder of these faulty parts step up is different depending on the company! Some just don't!

They don't use the word junk! It's added value to our line-up! Increase our shop labor to sell and profit more from.
 
   / Going to buy a tractor....Between Kubota and JD....which one is more american made #72  
Thats why you buy a Kioti... They make thier own engines and attachments.....Lols
 
   / Going to buy a tractor....Between Kubota and JD....which one is more american made #73  
Thats why you buy a Kioti... They make thier own engines and attachments.....Lols
Engines, yes. Attachments, no. They outsource pretty much everything besides their FEL - BH, and all 3ph are not theirs. Why? Because they don't make enough money off of them to spend enough money in order to make a quality product. Their market demands a quality product at a decent price and they deliver through outsourcing. Should they not outsource they would either not be able to offer these products or loose a lot of money on them because of the money spent in research and development would never be made up.
When the machines use outsourced parts when it comes to warrantee there is instant red flags all over and most have to be shipped back and it takes more to get authorization to get approvals. Most dealer will tell you that! Exceptions to warrantee's becuase of these parts are normally not going to happen vs in house manufactuered parts go along alot easier. How well the builder of these faulty parts step up is different depending on the company! Some just don't!

They don't use the word junk! It's added value to our line-up! Increase our shop labor to sell and profit more from.

You obviously have a grudge against outsourcing, but let it be known there's no difference between outsourcing and where your tractor is built.

I would be interested in hearing how much you think an average company actually builds itself. That number is extremely minute. Whether it be outsourced raw materials, parts, robots to build the product or people that work on them there is no feasible way to make a quality product at a decent price. It is IMPOSSIBLE! With the chance of sounding political, and please don't let this turn into it, if you've never watched Milton Friedman's 'I, Pencil' I suggest you do. No single human being can solely make something as simple as a pencil. Just like no corporation can build a product of ANY kind solely in-house.

Just stop the video around 1:45 if you want to keep it out of the political stuff:
Power of the Market - The Pencil - YouTube
 
   / Going to buy a tractor....Between Kubota and JD....which one is more american made #74  
This is one of my favorite topics. As Art has said, as a dealer, the less out sourcing thats done the better service we can provide. More and more, companies are buying others products and remarketing them. From the dozens of brands that Art and I would represent, Kubota does the least amount of outsourcing and as the most control over their product front to back. Kubota has a division in Canada that mines Iron Ore, one that does castings (including iron pipe and enviromental systems), KMA, KIE, etc that build the tractors and implements. CNH, Deere, etc are here with some big tractors and implements, but in compacts Kubota is almost alone.
 
   / Going to buy a tractor....Between Kubota and JD....which one is more american made #75  
marty,kioti does make thier owm fel,and backhoes unlike jd.
 
   / Going to buy a tractor....Between Kubota and JD....which one is more american made #76  
I guess from my seat I see things different then you! I don't want to see my customers equipment broken and not able to be fixed and returned to them when in order to warrantee there equipment it takes a pre authorization because of it not being made by the wholesaler.
I want to give my customers service that is not hindered with obstructions and I also want to know I don't have to eat or pay for another repair because of not having saved the ruined part that might have had to be removed with a torch because of a weak part.

I've seen enough that has been built by outsiders or by contract that after the deal was signed the manufactuer changed the design or materials to enhance his profit!!! Duh! I've also seen one of the largest manufactuers of ag machinery that for most new models has large fifty plus hour updates for dealers to do on initial run equipment. They do a lot of outsourcing!!!!

You say that the builder can go back? Sure they can and then we can change the parts out a year later to rectify the problem if the contractor is still in buisness to go after and recieve a settlement from much less the damage from selling faulty equipment and yes, seeing it on tractorbynet or any other websites around the industry.

There is a big difference with the people who build things in an industry where they want to be vs someone that is there because they get their paycheck from them or they may be the best paying job that they could get.

I do agree that everyone looks at things differently and there is more hen one way to do things. Lets just hope that someone has been there to better guide then a individual that knows nothing about what they are building and why it needs to be built then a sheet of paper with some lines on it.
 
   / Going to buy a tractor....Between Kubota and JD....which one is more american made #77  
marty,kioti does make thier owm fel,and backhoes unlike jd.

I know I read somewhere that Kioti does NOT make their own backhoes. Can't find it now. JD does NOT make their backhoes, but DO make their front end loaders. Unlike Kioti who outsources ALL of their 3ph implements JD makes quite a few of their own and outsources some to Woods. Not to mention their farm equipment (balers and such) is made by themselves.

This is one of my favorite topics. As Art has said, as a dealer, the less out sourcing thats done the better service we can provide. More and more, companies are buying others products and remarketing them. From the dozens of brands that Art and I would represent, Kubota does the least amount of outsourcing and as the most control over their product front to back. Kubota has a division in Canada that mines Iron Ore, one that does castings (including iron pipe and enviromental systems), KMA, KIE, etc that build the tractors and implements. CNH, Deere, etc are here with some big tractors and implements, but in compacts Kubota is almost alone.

To me this means more overhead. More overhead is NOT always a good thing. Companies need to work on their specialty, Kubota can design a tractor. When they get into mining they are not going to be as efficient with the extra overhead.

I guess from my seat I see things different then you! I don't want to see my customers equipment broken and not able to be fixed and returned to them when in order to warrantee there equipment it takes a pre authorization because of it not being made by the wholesaler.
I want to give my customers service that is not hindered with obstructions and I also want to know I don't have to eat or pay for another repair because of not having saved the ruined part that might have had to be removed with a torch because of a weak part.

I've seen enough that has been built by outsiders or by contract that after the deal was signed the manufactuer changed the design or materials to enhance his profit!!! Duh! I've also seen one of the largest manufactuers of ag machinery that for most new models has large fifty plus hour updates for dealers to do on initial run equipment. They do a lot of outsourcing!!!!

You say that the builder can go back? Sure they can and then we can change the parts out a year later to rectify the problem if the contractor is still in buisness to go after and recieve a settlement from much less the damage from selling faulty equipment and yes, seeing it on tractorbynet or any other websites around the industry.

There is a big difference with the people who build things in an industry where they want to be vs someone that is there because they get their paycheck from them or they may be the best paying job that they could get.

I do agree that everyone looks at things differently and there is more hen one way to do things. Lets just hope that someone has been there to better guide then a individual that knows nothing about what they are building and why it needs to be built then a sheet of paper with some lines on it.

I would love to think that any company can make a quality product at a reputable price, but it's not possible. Think what would Dodge trucks be today if they all of a sudden decided they no longer wanted Cummins and were going to make their own engines. Most people who buy Dodge trucks don't say they bought a Dodge, they say they bought a Cummins. In this case outsourcing the engine increases sales and gives a higher quality product.

Don't get me wrong, a product built solely in-house would be awesome. But you cannot name one product in the world that is made solely by one company. It just can't happen. There are way to many factors of production that would allow one company to make a product start to finish. And if they did it would cost 100X more than any other comparable.

You can argue the principle that outsourcing is bad and results in less control of the product, but that's the same as someone saying that I want a tractor made in the USA. In the end it has no effect on the individual as parts are outsourced all around the globe and come together in a central location where it is assembled. The assembly is the weakest part of the entire process of building a product, but yet people think it's the most important.

And your second to last last statement further more proves my point. Companies must work in their specialty. When they get to big it doesn't work out well. That's why they must outsource so they can focus on what they need to do instead of focusing on small parts of the supply chain that may screw up their end product. GM at one time had 9 different brands that all tried to market to different consumer bases inside the states alone. All of that overhead on the different brands caused prices to go up and GM to almost go under. Consolidating to what they can do they now are more profitable and are on the upswing.
 
   / Going to buy a tractor....Between Kubota and JD....which one is more american made #78  
does NOT make their own backhoes??? All lies .... Tell me ole JD wise one Who makes the Backhoes for Kioti??????
 
   / Going to buy a tractor....Between Kubota and JD....which one is more american made #79  
does NOT make their own backhoes??? All lies by a JD Snob..

Maybe I misread/misremembered. No reason to get angry about it. Me and Art were having a nice conversation, I'd like it to stay that way.
 
   / Going to buy a tractor....Between Kubota and JD....which one is more american made #80  
Sorry bout that I changed it. Kioti makes all thier own attachments I don't know about the implements nor do I care.
 
 
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