Buying Advice Looking for CUT Advice - where to start

[FrenziedEngi]

Hi. Looking for buying advice on CUT.

Background
Within the past couple years we bought a "farm" from family. It has been operated as a casual/hobby farm in the past, but in recent years much of the land is being leased to others. In total it is about 40 acres of field and 20 acres of forest. I am considering a CUT tractor to replace/combine some of the equipment currently on the farm. Why? Something easier to operate, fewer machines to maintain, more capabilities, takes up less space.

On the property there is about 120' elevation change from one side to the other, most of that change being in one half. We live on a hill

I guess I don't have a strong preference for new vs used, as long as the used meets my needs, is easy enough to operate, and isn't a maintenance nightmare. I can change fluids and filters, but I am not about to pull an engine.

Current equipment

• Skidsteer - Has standard bucket and a forklift attachment. Used as powered wheel barrow, hydraulics drive a wood splitter. Helps with wood handling. Also has forklift attachment.
• IH 350 utility - still runs fine, although it has some minor issues (slow fluid leaks) and brakes are weak. The tractor has a bunch of implements, some of which are 3 point hitch, and others are 2 point "quick hitch", which I think was unique to IH for a time (?). I dislike this tractor just because it is not friendly to operate. Hard to shift, hard to maneuver. I would not consider using this tractor for anything moderately delicate. It's primary use right now is bush hogging.
• Big truck, primary use for snowplowing and hauling/trailering. Currently am using a dedicated plowtruck, but would like to avoid having 3 vehicles if I could.

So if these items were to be replaced, these are the "immediate" roles that would need to be filled by new tractor...

Critical/Immediate Duties and Needs

• Winter snow removal. I live on a hilltop, near a large open field. We get a lot of wind and a lot of drifting. Due to the specifics of our house/driveway layout, plowing usually only works so well in the winter and we end up needing to use the skidsteer to push the snowbanks back. So a FEL or snowblower attachment interests me a lot.
• Bush-hogging.
• Log/Wood handling for firewood and sawing (lumber).
• Hydraulic hookups to run a wood splitter
• Enclosed cab. Since I am planning on using this for snow removal, an enclosed cab is important. I could be clearing the driveway with the wind blowing snow in my face at 40mph otherwise.
• 4WD

Would be nice...

• Maintain compatibility with IH 350u implements/attachments (discs, york rake, etc).
• Backhoe. When you have a hammer everything looks like a nail. I have walked around the property plenty of times and thought "would be nice to have a backhoe here.." Examples: Digging out around edges of ponds, trenching to help drainage (already hired a guy to help me with this once).
• Mowing lawn (2-3 acres). This is really lowest priority. I have a pretty rough (hilly) mowing situations with slopes averaging 11-15 degrees. Some spots are over 20 degrees. I am of the impression that sticking with garden/lawn tractor is the best bet for this, especially due to hills.

Dealers: Have a variety of dealers in close proximity to me. JD, Case, NH, Kubota. Have not had any experience with any of the dealers.

List of tractors I have researched a bit...

• JD 2305
• JD 3320 w/ Cab

Questions

• How to narrow down between manufacturers?
• Is it possible to use quick-tach like plates that a skid steer uses on a CUT? What is necessary?
• What are the tradeoffs I am making with an enclosed cab (other than $$)? Am I losing anything? I have considered that it becomes less maneuverable around low hanging trees...
• Pricing. How much is my final cost going to vary from what I see advertised on a website? How likely are negotiations, discounts, etc.
• Is there a time of the year that is better to buy?
• How quickly am I going to bust up the cab? If I hit a small branch is the window going out or will I be ok? Is a cab a no-no if you are bringing your tractor into the woods?
• What do I need to know before I go talk with a dealer? Given the above, am I prepared?

Thanks for your time!

 

[TripleR]

Hi. Looking for buying advice on CUT.

Would be nice...

• Maintain compatibility with IH 350u implements/attachments (discs, york rake, etc).
• Backhoe. When you have a hammer everything looks like a nail. I have walked around the property plenty of times and thought "would be nice to have a backhoe here.." Examples: Digging out around edges of ponds, trenching to help drainage (already hired a guy to help me with this once).
• Mowing lawn (2-3 acres). This is really lowest priority. I have a pretty rough (hilly) mowing situations with slopes averaging 11-15 degrees. Some spots are over 20 degrees. I am of the impression that sticking with garden/lawn tractor is the best bet for this, especially due to hills.

You can include a back hoe on just about any CUT, I don't need one, so hopefully someone can chime in; lots of prior threads on this.

Dealers: Have a variety of dealers in close proximity to me. JD, Case, NH, Kubota. Have not had any experience with any of the dealers.

Any brand can have good or bad dealers and the importance of a good one can't be over emphasized. We have good Kubota/NH and John Deere, so those are the ones I use.

List of tractors I have researched a bit...

• JD 2305 This has been replaced by the 1023/26, we own a 2305 and I would go bigger unless you get two machines.
• JD 3320 w/ Cab

Questions

• How to narrow down between manufacturers? Any of the top makers will have a good quality machine, try them out to see what fits you and your budge the best, I prefer Kubota, but own other brands.
• Is it possible to use quick-tach like plates that a skid steer uses on a CUT? What is necessary? You can order that on most tractors though John Deere has a proprietary setup, even some models you may have that option, will need to verify.
• What are the tradeoffs I am making with an enclosed cab (other than $$)? Am I losing anything? I have considered that it becomes less maneuverable around low hanging trees...LOTS of threads on this, but my two primary tractors have cabs, you can handle the limbs with a pole saw, but you do have more obstacles with a cab in heavy woods.
• Pricing. How much is my final cost going to vary from what I see advertised on a website? How likely are negotiations, discounts, etc. You should expect to get 10-15 percent off MSRP and oftentimes there are dealer incentives etc.
• Is there a time of the year that is better to buy? Not that I know of, but check with your dealer as price increases can come along and old stock will often have the old price. Many dealers don't own their inventory, so there is little incentive for seasonal discounts and tractors don't go by year model like cars.
• How quickly am I going to bust up the cab? If I hit a small branch is the window going out or will I be ok? Is a cab a no-no if you are bringing your tractor into the woods? I have run cabs for a lot of years and not busted mine up, few scratches maybe and no broken glass, just use common sense, get careless and you will break something.
• What do I need to know before I go talk with a dealer? Given the above, am I prepared? Spend some time building your tractors online with the MSRP, use the "search" feature and you will get a better idea. Once you narrow it down a bit, you might want to repost on the specific model.

Thanks for your time!

Answers are in the body of your post in red. Good luck

 

[Don87]

Answers are in the body of your post in red. Good luck

Can't get any better response than that. Cept that one response was in bold black italics(the red button did't work.......).

 

[dave1949]

Backhoes are handy, I have used mine a lot. On small tractors they are good for trenching (assuming no surprise big rocks in the way), general light landscape work, and light-duty things. Their weakness is, well, their weakness, and lack of horizontal reach.

You mentioned cleaning the edge of a pond for example. To stay out of the pond bank (and pond mud) you have to set up far enough back that the hoe isn't going to reach all that far down and in. They often won't take out smaller fresh stumps due to the lack of power, without digging around the stump and cutting roots before the hoe will pull the stump up/over.

I'm sure some have more power than others, but they all are limited by reach. Good tool to have but don't expect more than its capabilities. I think for a small tractor, if you have a specific need like nursery work, light land/hardscape work or the like, they are worth it. They are also good for digging up dirt to make it easy to scoop up with the FEL bucket. A thumb is a good option if you will be dealing with rocks.

 

[TripleR]

Can't get any better response than that. Cept that one response was in bold black italics(the red button did't work.......).

Thanks, I fixed it.

 

[Don87]

Thanks, I fixed it.

Your welcome.

 

[Buppies]

John Deere 3000 series are some what narrow in width and the slope you describe would with a cab be unstable and the pucker factor would be great . The 4000 series are larger and wider and may be a better fit. Cabs are a wonderful thing in winter and summer for that matter. I for one went with the largest frame for stability my land and pocketbook could afford. You may find the 5 series JD tractors are not much more in price than a 4000 series. Personally I chose a Kubota 5240 with a cab and hydro and am happy. Also looked at Kioti, New Holland ,Massey Ferguson and John Deere and between the MF 1648 and Kubota ended up with 5240 . Very stable and coming from a JD 3520 could not be happier

 

[Gary Fowler]

I have a Kubota B26 TLB and Dave1949 is absolutely right in the pond clean out issue. I have used mine doing just that and you have to set up dangerously close to the pond edge in order to reach any distance at all. Setting your tractor parallel to the pond limits the reach as you have to really back off a lot in order to set the stabilizers and backing up to it doesnt allow for dumping the spoils so you kind of have to set at an angle just to get the spoils out of the water and still have any reach at all. I would think that a tracked excavator would be needed for this, something with some reach and 360 degree dump.
As for stump removal, you do have to dig all the way around larger stumps in order to get them out, but small sapling stuff comes out easily. I used mine to up root sweetgum and small pines in one bite thinning out thickets with selective harvesting. The hydraulic thumb makes picking up and moving the brush pretty easy within the limited reach so I would recommend the extra cost as worthwhile.
For trenching they work pretty well but not to fast as with larger machines. I used mine with a 7" bucket to trench for lots of additional water lines for sprinklers and adding some remote spigot locations around the farm. It worked well for that.
I think that if you have lots of need for a backhoe and plan on using it for heavy work, you would be better off investing in a older but good shape heavy industrial one like a 310 D or later model. They can be had for less than $10K that are leak free. They may be a little sloppy in the pins but still work well. As long as it is hydraulic leak free and the motor and transmission are good they can be a good asset and you dont have to bother with removing the backhoe from your tractor everytime you want to use the 3 ph.
As for tractor size, I would say that a 45-50 HP with Cab would satisfy your needs. You would need to get a polesaw and trim up everything to at least 10 feet above ground for a 50 HP tractor to avoid scratching the cab or worse. I drive my LS under some low hanging limbs without damage but you sure dont want to hit a larger limb with it so diligence is highly advised. Since cab height is about 102", I took the time to trim all the trees up 12 feet or more in the area that I mow so I can mow close without bother. If you want to use it for logging, you would just need to be really careful and maybe cut a trail in as you go. Biggest problem I have with low hanging limbs is knocking in the mirrows that then lock you in the cab so the doors wont open without some rather awkward hand movement to push them back into place. Havent damaged anything yet though.

 

[TripleR]

Biggest problem I have with low hanging limbs is knocking in the mirrors that then lock you in the cab so the doors wont open without some rather awkward hand movement to push them back into place. Haven't damaged anything yet though.

The guys that farm our land just fold the mirrors forward on their 7000 Series John Deere before going in the woods, I keep a stick in my cab that I stick out the side glass to reposition my mirrors, just don't drop it.:laughing:

 

[boggen]

if you are doing a lot of backhoe hoe work. get a tractor that is setup for a backhoe. as in the seat swivels 180 degrees to operate backhoe vs getting off of tractor and getting onto backhoe seat. this alone can limit a descent amount of tractors more so ones with cabs.

another limiting factor can be when backhoe gets removed having access to 3pt hitch. some backhoes when removed do not give you a 3pt rear end.

a mechanical or hydraulic thumb can be a extremely nice investment for backhoe.

get a backhoe with a sub frame.

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with tractor being jack of all trades of variety of duties for it, you will want shuttle shift to hydrostatic tranmission with HST pedal or something like them. a generic old manual geared transmission will become ugly fast.

4wd is always nice. but find having 2wd, and correct setup can make a huge difference for maneuverability. with that said, having left/right split rear brake pedals on opposite foot than what the gas/go/hst pedal is on. can allow for much tighter turns. and getting in and around stuff.

also having differential lock for rear tires. that is easy to use.

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the muffler that sticks up in front, then cab, then backhoe. i hate all 3, but couldn't live without all 3. but all 3 catch branches, and torn up some muffler pipes, turn off some lights on the cab. and thought i damaged some hoses on the backhoe. and have torn some trees up pretty bad due to hitting them.

with above said, i gotta have my upper high placed front work lights on the cab, that are adjustable to angle easily, along with 2 rear high up work lights. they make working in fall and spring really nice as the sun begin going down. and just getting home for work and trying to get stuff done.

cabs and backhoes both can quickly require a much larger shed and more so a door to get them in and out of the shed. if you plan to shed the unit.

one thing i have found i dislike about any tractor, is needing to get out on the right side. and having the FEL joystick / levers right there in the way. and hitting it with my rear or my belly as i try to get off the right side,

cab version of tractors normally have an upgraded alternator that comes with them. vs non cab / open station tractors. to help run extra lights and other things. cans normally come stock with extra front and rear work lights. (not always)

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many tractors may not come with a "cold package" and for myself have engine block heater, and battery warmer, and glow plug. glow plug to heat fuel up in the intake manifold, block heater to make for easier starting, and battery warmer, so i do not drain battery dead with one crank of turning engine over in the 0 to -10 F temps and dealing with blizzards. ((tractor lives outside, i do not have a large enough shed to shed the 555c TLB))

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i would say min of 2 rear remotes on tractor, but might push for 3, for you. more so if you go with TNT (Top aNd Tilt) for the 3pt hitch. it is one of them bells and whistles. but can really make a large difference in grading drive ways, to various rakes and like. and being able to adjust top link or side link of a 3pt hitch with a hyd cylinder and lever in the cab.

3pt hitch comes in various categories, cat 0 riding lawn mowers and garden tractors, cat 1 SCUTS and CUTs, cat 2 CUTs to utilty class and larger machines, and cat 3 way beyond what you will get into. with above said. 3pt hitch equipment are most part completely universal between any and all makes and models of tractors. exception cat 0, which can be ugly at times pending on garden tractor make/model. but those are garden tractors / riding lawn mowers, and not actual tractors per say.

the only exception to above, is fast hitch / quick hitch setups, for both 3pt hitch and the FEL and backhoe bucket. you can normally modify an implement (cutting / welding) to redo pin hole connectors to adjust for various fast hitch / quick hitch setups or buy conversion setups.

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everything above said, having skid steer, tractor, plow truck, and riding lawn mower. seems like you have best of all worlds already, granted it is 4 engines and 4 machines you have to maintain. but you can do the eny miny mo game. of select which unit will best fit a given project.

but if you are serious of going down to a jack of all trades tractor and riding lawn mower. then you might consider getting rid of everything for skid steer (bucket and forks) and just getting a general heavy duty bucket and forks for the new or new to use used tractor.

selling the snow blade on truck, but keeping it around for hauling stuff. or going with say a 4in1 bucket for tractor. sorry but having a good size truck and trailer really does come in handy many times for me.

having a skid steer that has so much more maneuverability to get into the sheds to move stuff. can be extremely nice.