Another bizarre beginners question...

[Anonymous Poster]

So, as I'm reading all the useful information here on TBN, I've got odd little ideas forming in the dark recesses of my brain...

As near as I can gather at this point if I buy a single unit to do everything I need (tractor/loader/backhoe) I'm going to spend anywhere from $10,000 to $15,000 depending on new, used, and exact equipment level. This is predicated on having to get a machine new enough, and large enough, to effectively power the hydraulic system needed for a loader and backhoe, as well as large enough to be a competent platform for both accessories. It generally seems that a tractor which will handle those tasks will be more than up to anything else I throw at it.

So I'm thinking...Since I'm not afraid of equipment maintainance, and I don't depend on these tractors to pay my mortgage...

Maybe I could pick up an older, but still functional, loader/backhoe of the dedicated type. Being a dedicated machine it would do its assigned tasks well, even if it was too old for a commercial user to want to depend on it.

Then, since I no longer need to press my agricultural tractor into construction duty, I could get either a smaller ag tractor, or perhaps an older unit with some character. The main drawback to older units seems to be the lack of power for loader operation, so with no need for a loader a cool, eye-catching semi-antique would fill the bill for field/mower work.

If I shop hard, and get lucky, I figure I might be able to put 2 units in use for well under $10k, and also not have to spend it all at once.

So am I crazy, or is there some merit to this idea?
(I'd love to get feedback from the antique guys too)


Gregg

 

[Slamfire]

Around here basic Ford 8Ns, in good condition, run in the neighborhood of $5000, seems like it would be difficult to get another tractor with an FEL and hoe for that amount of money.

 

[jinman]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( So am I crazy, or is there some merit to this idea?
)</font>

I wouldn't say you are crazy, just that you've talked yourself into a very unrealistic expectation. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif For $10k, you can find a good used tractor or two. You will not find a good loader/bachoe for that price. Good ones which won't put you in the poorhouse keeping them fixed are $15k or more. So the two used tractors you describe are more likely to be a $25k investment. Even then, you are going to have used equipment which is subject to breaking. Just one trip to the repair shop with a construction type loader-backhoe can be a financial shock. Also, you'll need a large truck and trailer to haul it. Some loader-backhoes weigh 14,000 lb. Even if you have a big trailer, a 1-ton dually pickup is too small to haul it.

I think you'll find over the long run that you should just spend your hard-earned money on the tractor you will use 85% of the time and either rent or pay someone else for the 15% heavy duty work you'd need a commercial LBH for. You'll have a nice working utility tractor that won't break so much you'll spend a lot of your time fixing it. Good luck. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[rancar]

Gregg...

<font color="blue">"...As near as I can gather at this point if I buy a single unit to do everything I need (tractor/loader/backhoe) I'm going to spend anywhere from $10,000 to $15,000 depending on new, used, and exact equipment level...So am I crazy, or is there some merit to this idea?..."</font>

This is somewhat unrealistic. You will not get a TLB for less than $15K new or used unless if it has some serious mechanical or structural defects or problems or if it is a much older model with a ton of hours on it. Just a backhoe on one of the large chassis John Deere 4x10 series tractors (JD4610, 4710) will cost you minimum $7K new. The John Deere 110 TLB will cost you somewhere in the low to mid-$40K new. If you want everything you are looking for, you'll likely have to raise your budget.

...Bob

 

[rtimgray]

Maybe you could, if you were very fortunate, come up with an older loader/backhoe and ag tractor for under $10,000, but they would almost certainly require some wrenching. It would kinda depend on exactly how much work you're willing to put into them. Case in point: I bought a 1964 John Deere 2010 Industrial tractor with loader and backhoe for $2,000. I drove it on and off the trailer ( a semi-lowboy - it was a heavy old 'hoe) and did some work around the farm with it. It soon needed a new hydraulic pump ($300), intake/exhaust manifold ($100), muffler ($50), carbuerator rebuild ($150), full filter and fluid change (about 20 gals of hydraulic fluid total)($200 - hydraulic filter weren't cheap either). After all that, and many other minor items, I put about $1000 into it and several hours of labor, I had a semi-usable old backhoe. I also had a Belarus 420 (57hp) with a FEL. I ended up getting new tractor (Kioti) fever - sold the Belarus for $4500 last July and bought a new DK45. That fall, after being spoiled by the Kioti, I didn't feel like messing with the old JD anymore, and I didn't get a loader with the Kioti since I had the loader on the old JD, I traded my JD in on a new Rhino 2409 loader (about a $3000 implement or so-and I booted $500, so I lost about $500 on the JD to loader exchange - story of my life). So to make a long story longer, if you had been around me last year and wanted to buy both those things, you could've had them both for $7,500 and had $2,500 to play with for further repairs. Is it possible to get an older TLB and ag tractor for under $10,000 - absolutely. Will they be as nice and reliable and have that new tractor smell? -absolutely not.

Good luck - you might find just what you need.

Take it easy

Tim Gray

 

[SteveM]

Good points so far, and I will only counter by saying that here in upstate NY, a usable 8n is 2500 bucks, so the tractor part of the equation is fine. The TLB, well that is tricky. How much backhoe work are you looking to do? There is a dealer here that sells used Terramites - gas powered compact TLB units for around 6500 bucks, sometimes less. These machines are often owned by rental companies, and they look like a fun toy to have around. I have often thought that I might pick one up one of these years for moving dirt and mulch, transplanting trees, minor digging etc. Certainly not enough reach to dig a basement or anything - but good for little jobs.

Anyhow, I would think this might be an option for you if you are looking at smaller stuff.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

The guy next door to my present shop has a land clearing company, and he had an extra loader/backhoe with a root rake and bucket, and also had some pressing financial needs. He offered me an International TLB for $5K, including a new clutch. I also actually had a deposit on a '52 side distributor 8N, with Wagner loader, and a new brush hog, box blade and landscape rake, for a total of $4200. So, yes, it can be done.

All my life I've had "projects" - weird stuff no one else wants, waiting to be fixed up. Some got done, some didn't. Right now, there's a '66 Econoline van, a '79 Fiat 2000 roadster and an '85 MR2 out back waiting their turn, along with assorted Rabbits and Sciroccos waiting to contribute to our latest sports racing car.

This time, I decided I wanted the tractor(s) to do work, not as a project unto themselves, however fun that might be. So, I got my deposit back on the 8N, passed on the International TLB, bought a new TC18, and rented a Cat 416C for a couple of weeks (at a bargain rate) to do my clearing. Now, I'm hiring a 53'-reach track hoe to dig my pond. along with a D6 and dump trucks to handle the fill and grading. This time, the real project is going to get done, rather than me putzing with the tractors.

Even with repairs, it would have been cheaper the other way. But, it would have taken forever, especiially with repairs, and it wouldn't have turned out as nice. Plus, I would actually have laid out more cash in the beginning with the old stuff -- I took advantage of NH's 0% financing.

Do I have any regrets? Sure -- sometimes I fantasize all that neat iron waiting for me to use it whenever I want, and in my fantasies, it all continues to work perfectly, and in the end I sell it for more than I paid for it, actually making money on the land project. But, then, I wake up, and remember that '79 Fiat 2000 that I have actually owned for 17 years and have not quite gotten around to yet.

If you actually have the skills, the tools, the place to work, and most importantly, the discipline /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif to actually keep the tractors running, go for it. If you look around, it's entirely possible. But, not me, not this time.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

What you want to do is possible. A lot does depend on how reliable you want the loader/backhoe to be. Around her you can pick up a decent used 580 series Case loader/backhow for 7-12K.
I bought a IH 2444 tractor with commercial loader a while back for 4K, no backhoe yet though /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Good reliable tractor that will really dig with it's toothed bucket.
Just keep looking around and don't get in too big of a rush and you will do ok.

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

<font color="blue"> a decent used 580 series Case loader/backhoe for 7-12K </font>

Around here I see them at auction bringing up to $13,500-14,000 but never less than $10,500. A good one for $7,000 would be one heck of a buy, IMHO.

 

[boustany]

If you are talking about a dedicated loader/backhoe (as in the Case 580, mentioned above), there are pros and cons to that approach. I had a 580C, and for heavy moving, digging, etc., it was great: I could pick up massive stones, dig deep holes, crane, and all kinds of stuff I can't do with my 3010.

On the other hand weighing in at 16,000 pounds, there are a lot of places you can't go with a 580 without doing a lot of damage. You get stuck real easy on soft ground, even though you soon learn how to move around without any traction.

For all intends and purposes, a loader//backhoe is a loader and a backhoe. Forget about mowers, tillers, etc., etc..

I used mine while building my house and it was great. Once that ordeal was over, I traded it in on my Kubota and I'm glad I did.