Buying Advice Buying a Bobcat as they exit the business

[kiotiken]

FYI folks... this is a VERY important post. Exact same scenario as what's happening now.

Seriously?! Fear mongering a little here are we? What makes an "orphan" machine any worse of a choice for commercial use? IT IS A WHITE KIOTI FOLKS!! There is a different loader, and it doesn't have the same lift capacity for the CT440 - CT450 vs CK40 - CK50, so decide if that's important. Every other part will fit so you can get parts from either Bobcat or Kioti. If it was a good choice for commercial use before Bobcat dropped out, it still is.

Resale will be affected positively by Tier IV stuff. If it has as big an impact as some say, the value of used machines, especially this years crop, will increase right along with the price of the new ones. Also, NO tractor is a wise investment, you shouldn't be thinking of buying and re-selling without taking a hit anyway. Hopefully, you'll buy the tractor you'll keep for 20+ years, so why all the worry over resale?

 

[tractorback21]

Seriously?! Fear mongering a little here are we? What makes an "orphan" machine any worse of a choice for commercial use? IT IS A WHITE KIOTI FOLKS!! There is a different loader, and it doesn't have the same lift capacity for the CT440 - CT450 vs CK40 - CK50, so decide if that's important. Every other part will fit so you can get parts from either Bobcat or Kioti. If it was a good choice for commercial use before Bobcat dropped out, it still is.

Resale will be affected positively by Tier IV stuff. If it has as big an impact as some say, the value of used machines, especially this years crop, will increase right along with the price of the new ones. Also, NO tractor is a wise investment, you shouldn't be thinking of buying and re-selling without taking a hit anyway. Hopefully, you'll buy the tractor you'll keep for 20+ years, so why all the worry over resale?

Thank you, this is my point.

The loaders are almost the same for the Kioti vs BC. I need a 5000# loader and just 40 HP lol!!

 

[westcliffe01]

My situation with my Earthforce/Bobcat is not directly comparable because IR closed the Earthforce plant in the Czech republic altogether, so many parts have to be custom fabricated if you break it. So if the Kioti dealerships decide not to support Bobcat owners or there are a bunch of parts that they don't carry, it could get difficult. Like you develop a leak on the loader cylinder and Bobcat wants $800 for a seal kit, what are you going to do ? Will the Kioti dealer let you drop off your Bobcat and they will service it for you ? If this kind of support is not available, it could mean extended periods of downtime for commercial operators. By the sounds of it, the spec of the 2 machines sounds similar, if you have oddball hose sizes and fittings, or hydraulic equipment from an obscure source that gets more complicated.

Getting replacement hoses with the European type DKOL connectors took over a weeks worth of research, than another weeks negotiation with various sources starting at close to $40/connector - special ordered and ended up with someone who had them in stock for $6 each and could sell me the matching hose and sent me a PDF with all of the crimp sizes for the entire range of connector sizes. No commercial operator could afford his machine to be down all that time because of a hose issue. The farmer who has been using my machine this summer had 2 hoses fail on him, and both were repaired by splicing in a new piece of hose with "American" fittings. These kinds of repairs leave many weak links and more trouble down the road. Replacing all the hoses on my backhoe ultimately cost $315 (for 80ft of hose and 10 straight and 10 90 degree fittings + freight from California) + another $60 to get 12 hose fittings crimped. Of course I didn't have to pay anyone to spend hours power washing all the dirt, rocks and grease off everything, strip it all down, thread in all the new hoses and fit a new protective sleeve made from a coated fire hose... So as a non commercial user, I was pretty pleased with the job, but it would have cost someone a months worth of cash flow. Local rental places seem to have given up on having skidsteers to rent out because they spent more time in the shop than earning money and that is particularly true when it is not their own mechanic working on it.

As a private owner, it is just one of the hassles that goes along with ownership of equipment and we can seldom afford the cost of the dealers shop anyway, unless as a last resort and then generally only for something that we have no idea how to deal with. The first thing I bought after buying my machine was the full shop manual. Unfortunately, the Bobcat manual only explains how to tear something down and how to put it back together, but fails to provide any insight into how the thing works or why one would want to tear it down in the first place. Making the link from schematics to the actual layout of the hydraulic and electrical circuits is also handled very poorly. I can only suggest looking at the Kioti manual if you have a Bobcat to see if it is any better. If they were both written in Korea you may be out of luck, but it is worth checking if you can. I had no such option.

 

[kiotiken]

Wow, I'm sorry to hear the head ache you've had. This case is different. The two tractors aren't similar, they're identical. I don't know why a Kioti dealer wouldn't welcome a visit from Bobcat tractor, although it covered under warranty. In the end, dealers have a partnership, usually with several manufactures, but that's it, they're still a business and will welcome work that they can easily handle. If an individual Kioti dealer has some type of issue with it, you can also go to a McCormick or Landini dealer, still the exact same machine in a different color.

 

[joshuabardwell]

By the sounds of it, the spec of the 2 machines sounds similar, if you have oddball hose sizes and fittings, or hydraulic equipment from an obscure source that gets more complicated.

The machines are not just similar. They are the exact same machine, painted a different color, with different stickers on. The Bobcat loader is different than the Kioti loader, if memory serves, but that's it. I can't imagine any reason why a Kioti dealer wouldn't welcome a Bobcat customer's money. Unless they have something against white paint. But usually, most people like green better than they hate white.

EDIT: And by "green," I mean money, not Deere.

 

[94BULLITT]

The machines are not just similar. They are the exact same machine, painted a different color, with different stickers on. The Bobcat loader is different than the Kioti loader, if memory serves, but that's it. I can't imagine any reason why a Kioti dealer wouldn't welcome a Bobcat customer's money. Unless they have something against white paint. But usually, most people like green better than they hate white.

EDIT: And by "green," I mean money, not Deere.

The wiring/ electrical is different.

 

[IndyIan]

The wiring/ electrical is different.

Judging by how the dash looks, it looks pretty similar. Anyways, these are still pretty simple tractors, and I'm sure 15 years from now, a tech could figure out what's what without much drama... If I could've bought a white Kioti for $4-5k less, I would've take the "gamble" on it. Heck, invest the difference and in 20 years you can buy another one.

 

[wildcatblue]

why take the risk buying this brand unless you get a deal to hard to pass up, other than that look else where, there's to many other brands available to compare..

 

[DT86]

I don't see any risk. Sure resale might take a hit but if you plan to keep it who cares?

If I needed a tractor that size I'd give them a look.

 

[SSdoxie]

why take the risk buying this brand unless you get a deal to hard to pass up, other than that look else where, there's to many other brands available to compare..

What is the risk? I fail to see it. These same tractors all built by Daedong are marketed in North America under 4 brand names - Bobcat, McCormick, Landini, & Deadongs own company-Kioti. For Bobcat, the tractor arrives in US minus seat, steering wheel, wheels & tires, and battery. These are all supplied by Bobcat from supplier they ahve been doing business with for years, supply similar or same items for the consturction line - no problem with parts supply there.
Specialty parts installed by Daedong at the factory are the wire harness, seat switch, and OPCU module (different because of the seat switch). Daedong purcahses these fromt eh same supplier as there regular Kioti components so it stand to reason they will still be available. Bobcat & Daedong have commited to a minimum of 10 years parts support through Bobcat which can & will be reviewd then. If Daedong wishes to they can easily give the Kioti dealers access to these part numbers anytime after the OEM contract expires.
Situation that Westcliffe was reffering to is totally different in that product was discontiued at the manufacturing level so parts are often hard to come by and can be expensive. The tractor lives on, just won't come in the white (Albino Kitoi) anymore.