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  1. #21
    Super Member LD1's Avatar
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    Central Ohio
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    Kubota l3400

    Default Re: 4wd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buckgnarly View Post
    All this talk got me looking for a definitive definition, and it seems that SAE uses the two ranges to define 4WD and AWD.....it seems if it has a low range, they consider it 4WD....but only one range makes it AWD. Clear as mud I guess......
    That would make the old NP203 a 4wd then. Even though it has a diff in the t-case, it has a high and low range.

    Bu now what about tractors that dont have a high-low in the t-case per-say??
    ".........there is only one way to find out."
    "Ok, hold my beer and watch this.........."


    Ford 5500 Backhoe
    Kubota L3400GST W/LA463 FEL
    2005 Dodge 3500 4x4 Diesel
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    Bushhog 306
    3 Homemade wood hauling trailers
    Dolmar 6400 84cc ported
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    (4) Sachs-Dolmar 116SI Ported
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  2. #22
    Platinum Member Buckgnarly's Avatar
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    May 2012
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    West topsham VT
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    Kioti DS3510

    Default Re: 4wd?

    Quote Originally Posted by LD1 View Post

    Bu now what about tractors that dont have a high-low in the t-case per-say??
    Good question....but I guess SAE does not care about tractors

  3. #23
    Veteran Member brain55's Avatar
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    Default

    Well I guess all of those times I was told by the factory reps at kubota that they tried to match the wheel speed I was being mislead. Even if the optimum lead is 2% there is still only a limited window of tire inflation and tire wear where this is actually achieved.

  4. #24
    Super Member LD1's Avatar
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    Kubota l3400

    Default Re: 4wd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buckgnarly View Post
    Good question....but I guess SAE does not care about tractors
    I wonder if there is a STE??

    Quote Originally Posted by brain55 View Post
    Well I guess all of those times I was told by the factory reps at kubota that they tried to match the wheel speed I was being mislead. Even if the optimum lead is 2% there is still only a limited window of tire inflation and tire wear where this is actually achieved.
    I am not denying what you are saying. And maybe kubota does try to do a 0% lead/lag. But these discussions have come up several times on this very website. And it is generally agreed upon that up to 5% lead is accepted as normal. Otherwise, when the fronts do wear down, you would end up with a lag condition, which is not desirable.

    Here, this is a good read http://www.firestoneag.com/webres/Fi...fo-LeadLag.pdf
    ".........there is only one way to find out."
    "Ok, hold my beer and watch this.........."


    Ford 5500 Backhoe
    Kubota L3400GST W/LA463 FEL
    2005 Dodge 3500 4x4 Diesel
    8N Rebuilt and restored
    Bushhog 306
    3 Homemade wood hauling trailers
    Dolmar 6400 84cc ported
    Sachs-Dolmar 120SI Ported
    (4) Sachs-Dolmar 116SI Ported
    Dolmar PS540
    Sachs-Dolmar 115i
    Sachs-Dolmar 117
    Sachs-Dolmar 112

  5. #25
    Gold Member
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    Dec 2006
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    431
    Location
    Oakdale, TN
    Tractor
    Kubota M8540HD ROPS

    Default Re: 4wd?

    Think about it for a minute. Suppose that the fronts were driving slower than the rears, then the rears would end up pushing the fronts which would not be good. It would also be bad for steering if the fronts were driving slower than the rears.
    Having a little bit of lead for the fronts will improve traction and steering.
    Kubota M8540HD ROPS, LA1353 FEL

  6. #26
    Veteran Member buck12's Avatar
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    NW Mississippi
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    Mahindra 2615

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Buckgnarly

    Using automotive world terms, AWD and 4WD are NOT the same.

    An AWD car has some form of "slip" built into the transfer case, be it viscous coupler or mechnical means. A true 4WD will have the front and rear locked by means of gears or chain in the transfer case. There is no slip between front and rear axles, hence no driving(or more appropriately, TURNING) on hard pack surfaces while in 4WD but an AWD is OK. The slip is necessary b/c the front and rear axle will be turning at different rates due to different arcs while in a turn.

    I am guessing that the makers of the 4WD tractors factor the tire size difference and adjust the front and rear gear ratio accordingly to get rid of as much rotational difference from front to rear. Even some OEM trucks have a slight difference (like 4.11 front and 4.10 rear )but if using on a slick surface it does not cause binding.

    Open, L/S, and locked axles only affect the two wheels on that axle, not make it "4wd". The transfer case is what makes it AWD or 4WD.
    Also all the AWD vehicles (mostly station wagons on steroids) I have seen don't have low range like a typical 4WD truck.

  7. #27
    Gold Member
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    NSW Australia
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    Tractors16-600hp Farm & Earthmoving Equip, Trucks etc.

    Default Re: 4wd?

    By Agricultural Tractor design.manufacturing nomenclature/definition:-

    - a 4WD has equal size wheels, is capable of taking equal loading/power through only the front axle & running constantly as a 4WD, 4WD may be selectable together with independent engagement of centre, front & rear diff locks
    - a FWA (front wheel assist) or MFWD has unequal sized axles/wheels with a noticeably smaller front set & cannot take equal loading/power through solely the front axle, FWA/MFWD is selectable, rear diff lock is also usually selectable & a front diff lock may or may not be fitted.

    4WD's, FWA's & MFWD's can all run single, dual or triple tyres on one or all axles, the number of tyres does not dictate the drive definition, afterall equal size single or dual tyres can be fitted on both axles of a 2WD tractor.........

    As for AWD vs 4WD SUV's/Trucks:-
    - in a AWD, power is transmitted/biased via either only the front or rear axle, all wheel drive is only available "on demand" via auto engagement & cannot be engaged manuall for constant AWD running, they do not have mechanical transfer boxes & rely usually upon a viscous or electro mechanical coupling type intermediate reduction drive/variance on diff ratio's front to back (e.g Toyota Highlandger/Kluger)
    - 4WD's, can be constant all wheel drive applying drive at all times to front & rear axles (e.g Range Rover, Subaru, Toyota 200 Landcruiser) or with manually engaged selectable 4WD (Landcruiser 78 series, Unimog, Pinzgaur) the vehicles may or may not have low range/centre or axle diff locks but will have a mechanical transfer box coupling the front/rear axles by viscous, mechanical or electro mechanical means..etc

  8. #28
    Elite Member whistlepig's Avatar
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    Preble County, Ohio
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    Kubota B7800 with FEL

    Default Re: 4wd?

    All 4wd's have the front working against the back to some degree. If not, one end or the other isn't doing the job at the same time. If one end is freewheeling while the other is end not then 4wd it isn't. These are not true "lockers". Both the front and rear have differentials. They wouldn't steer very well if they didn't have differentials. Try leaving your truck in full time 4wd all the time. You will be shopping for some universal joints very quickly.
    I used to do the Hokey Pokey but I turned myself around.

  9. #29
    Bronze Member
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    Parrottsville TN
    Tractor
    Kubota

    Default Re: 4wd?

    Tyres for B6100 or B7100 4x4 with grip

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have been looking for a replacement set of tyres for my 6100 for ages and have a solution that works. I wanted wide tyres that would not cut up the grass but also wanted them to grip the snow and mud as I use a FEL.

    So as I have seen others asking the same questions on Orange I thought I would pass this on.

    The problem is the interactual ratio, get it wrong and its going to cost you! We know what Rolling Circumference (RC) we need and the gear ratio (1.464) but can we find front and rear tyres that work? No! You get a good Agri rear but have to go turf on the front.

    Well I now have a set on my tractor that meets all the requirements above. They are as follows:
    Rear - 29 x 12.50 x 15 (RC = 88 inch @ 15psi) Carlisle TRU POWER
    Front - 20 x 8 x 10 (RC = 62 inch @ 25psi) Kenda K378

    Tyre Inner Tubes, Quad Bike Tyres, ATV Tyres, Turf Tyres, Wheelbarrow Tyres, Ride On Lawn Mower Tyres, Golf Buggy Tyres, Sack Truck Tyres

    62 x 1.464 = 90.768 divided by 88 = 1.0314 minus 1 x 100 = 3.14 %

    well within the 0-5% lead reccomended by kubota

    Both front and rears have Agri tread pattern and grip very well, but are wide so do not sink. Best of all is they look fantastic.

    I'm also changing out my tire size. The above is a quote pasted from another site..........I used a similar formula to change my size.

    From everthing I read there is a front wheel lead.



    When you move up from a 2wd to a 4wd (FWA).........call it what you want.........it's a world of difference.



    Yeah I drive Jeep............Only in a Jeep 4.10 front and 4.11 rear

  10. #30
    Super Member LD1's Avatar
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    Kubota l3400

    Default Re: 4wd?

    The difference between 4.10 and 4.11 is 0.24%. Almost negligible. On a 30" tire, that would be 1/16" difference in overall height. (or 1/32" difference in tread wear). Again, negligible.

    Same thing with 3.54 and 3.55 gears.
    ".........there is only one way to find out."
    "Ok, hold my beer and watch this.........."


    Ford 5500 Backhoe
    Kubota L3400GST W/LA463 FEL
    2005 Dodge 3500 4x4 Diesel
    8N Rebuilt and restored
    Bushhog 306
    3 Homemade wood hauling trailers
    Dolmar 6400 84cc ported
    Sachs-Dolmar 120SI Ported
    (4) Sachs-Dolmar 116SI Ported
    Dolmar PS540
    Sachs-Dolmar 115i
    Sachs-Dolmar 117
    Sachs-Dolmar 112

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