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  1. #1
    New Member whitet101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    20
    Location
    North Shore Ma.
    Tractor
    Kioti CK27HST

    Default Tier4 What I need to know?

    As i shop for a kubota L3200 or equivelent, What do I need to know about the pending emission requirements.
    The sales person im talking with is giving me the hurry or you will be spending much more on the same tractor.
    So what are the new changes and when do they take place?
    Im looking in the 30 HP range.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Veteran Member SSdoxie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    1,911
    Location
    Cumberland Plateau, TN
    Tractor
    Bobcat CT225

    Default Re: Tier4 What I need to know?

    All the companies are staying pretty tight lipped about what/how their engines are going to be equipped to meet Tier4. When the over 75 hp had to go to intierm tier 4 this year kubota added common rail electronic fuel injection, plus exhaust after treatment - DPF. This added somewheres close to $5000 +/- to the engine cost. This next change coming involves 26 - 75hp engines. The smaller engines going to final tier4 have less stringent emissions requirements, and what does get added will vary with HP. The higher the HP the more will be required, but we will likely see electronic fuel injection on all, plus some type of oxidation catalyst, and quite likely DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter)or DEF (Diesel Ehaust Fluid) on those closer to the 75hp size.
    Best guess I could give is figure at least $2000.00 more for same size tractor.
    Dennis

    CT225 w/7TL QA FEL, 60"tooth dirt bucket, 68" smooth bucket, Pallet Forks, Bale Spear. Hydrualic top llin, QH, 48 RC, 60" tiller, Angle blade, Landscape rake, Carry-all, Post hole auger.

  3. #3
    New Member whitet101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    20
    Location
    North Shore Ma.
    Tractor
    Kioti CK27HST

    Default Re: Tier4 What I need to know?

    Dennis, Thanks Great explanation, any idea when would be the date I would no longer be able to purchase existing models?

    MW

  4. #4
    Gold Member Monster5601's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    420
    Location
    Oakland, MI
    Tractor
    Kubota B3030 R4 Tires

    Default Re: Tier4 What I need to know?

    Quote Originally Posted by whitet101 View Post
    As i shop for a kubota L3200 or equivelent, What do I need to know about the pending emission requirements.
    The sales person im talking with is giving me the hurry or you will be spending much more on the same tractor.
    So what are the new changes and when do they take place?
    Im looking in the 30 HP range.

    Thanks
    My dealer told me he learned that the Grand L series would be seeing a $6K price increase. He got this from the big Kubota dealers meeting a few weeks back. He wasn't sure what the price increase was going to be on the smaller 26HP and over tractors but he is thinking in the 3 to 6 K range. Pricing is now with the orders he placed at the show.
    Bob, n8zcc

    Kubota B3030 with R4s
    LA403, 60" bucket with hooks, bolt-on tooth bar, ratchet rake
    BH76 with 16" bucket and thumb
    Kubota Pallet Folks
    Bush Hog 35-06 72" Rear Blade
    Bush Hog SBX60 Box Blade
    Bush Hog Razorback RZ160
    Kubota ZD323-60
    Kubota RTV900 with Curtis hydraulic angle plow

  5. #5
    Veteran Member SSdoxie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    1,911
    Location
    Cumberland Plateau, TN
    Tractor
    Bobcat CT225

    Default Re: Tier4 What I need to know?

    When these start to show up on dealer lots will vary depending of a few factors. The tractor can be built in 2013 but doesn't have to be Tier4 if engine for it was built in 2012, so it depends on lead time of engines built (on order) in advance of tractor build. Example - If there is normally 3 months supply of engines in the system, tractor won't start getting Tier4 until April. Then there is the shipping or lead time getting to U.S. Manufacture also has the appilty to use some temporary "flex" credits to delay implementation if needed or desired provided they haven't already used up their max. allocated. Then it also depends on the dealer's current inventory, how many of the current Intierim Tier4 did he stock up on so he could sell the lower priced IT4 tractors against his competitor having final T4s.
    Dennis

    CT225 w/7TL QA FEL, 60"tooth dirt bucket, 68" smooth bucket, Pallet Forks, Bale Spear. Hydrualic top llin, QH, 48 RC, 60" tiller, Angle blade, Landscape rake, Carry-all, Post hole auger.

  6. #6
    Super Member Gary Fowler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    6,518
    Location
    Bismarck Arkansas
    Tractor
    2009 Kubota RTV 900, 2009 Kubota B26 TLB & 2010 model LS P7010

    Default Re: Tier4 What I need to know?

    I would expect that if big farm tractors came out with DEP or DEF then the first thing the farmer would do is unhook all the smog stuff just like folks did when cars first came out with anti-smog pumps and catalytic converters. Spending money on off road equipment to reduce particulates to me is a waste and that money should be spent on developing more fuel efficient, less polluting ON road vehicles. There is more pollution put into the air in wood burning for heat/cooking, burning off cane fields, wheat fields etc than all the tractors in the world produce.
    I am all for saving fuel, however most of the stuff I am reading about now cost us in fuel consumption and in effect may be raising the pollution levels rather than retarding them. The American automobile is at least 20 years behind European standards for MPG, some of it due to our demand for 800 pound feet of torque in our daily drivers but others in just plain manufacturer negligence in using the latest technology. Ever notice that everytime an new standard for mileage is set the auto makers complain about not being realistic and cant be done, but always meet the goal. I hate to say more tax, but It is time for America to match world standards for engine size and performance and make the gas guzzler tax for engines big enough to discourage buying the 6-9 liter engines. I have done quiet a bit of working in foreign countries and can tell you that many of them have no large than 2.5L engines and most places the engines are all diesel and easily get 40+ MPG in a family sedan. I drove a Jaguar station wagon in Scotland that averaged 50 MPG and ran like a scalded dog but it had a 6 speed std, turbocharger and 2.5L diesel engine. Why cant we buy something like that here? (MPG rating not necessarily a Jag)
    2010 LS P-7010C 20F/20R gear tractor & FEL, 2009 Kubota B 26 TLB, RTV 900 Kubota,17 foot Lund boat with 70HP motor, 2012-20 ft 12k GVW trailer, 2011- 52" Craftsman ZTR mower, 3 weed whackers, pressure washer, leaf blowers, 7 foot bush hog, 8 foot landscape rake , 8 foot 3 PH disc, 2 row cultivator, 350 amp CC AC/DC welding machine and all the tools needed to keep them all repaired and running.

  7. #7
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    185
    Location
    Love, VA
    Tractor
    Kubota B7100 HST 4WD

    Default Re: Tier4 What I need to know?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Fowler View Post
    I would expect that if big farm tractors came out with DEP or DEF then the first thing the farmer would do is unhook all the smog stuff just like folks did when cars first came out with anti-smog pumps and catalytic converters. Spending money on off road equipment to reduce particulates to me is a waste and that money should be spent on developing more fuel efficient, less polluting ON road vehicles. There is more pollution put into the air in wood burning for heat/cooking, burning off cane fields, wheat fields etc than all the tractors in the world produce.
    I am all for saving fuel, however most of the stuff I am reading about now cost us in fuel consumption and in effect may be raising the pollution levels rather than retarding them. The American automobile is at least 20 years behind European standards for MPG, some of it due to our demand for 800 pound feet of torque in our daily drivers but others in just plain manufacturer negligence in using the latest technology. Ever notice that everytime an new standard for mileage is set the auto makers complain about not being realistic and cant be done, but always meet the goal. I hate to say more tax, but It is time for America to match world standards for engine size and performance and make the gas guzzler tax for engines big enough to discourage buying the 6-9 liter engines. I have done quiet a bit of working in foreign countries and can tell you that many of them have no large than 2.5L engines and most places the engines are all diesel and easily get 40+ MPG in a family sedan. I drove a Jaguar station wagon in Scotland that averaged 50 MPG and ran like a scalded dog but it had a 6 speed std, turbocharger and 2.5L diesel engine. Why cant we buy something like that here? (MPG rating not necessarily a Jag)
    Removing or altering the emissions equipment will not work, in all likelyhood. The common rail/electronic fuel management will depend on input from the emissions equipment, so altering it will hobble the tractor- just like it does in the trucks. Until you can fool the computer, you won't be able to do it. That's my guess.
    "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ..." Romans 1:16
    Kubota B7100 HST 4WD
    94 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD

  8. #8
    Gold Member streamin's Avatar
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    Nov 2006
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    252
    Location
    Conroe, Texas. Franklinville, N.Y.
    Tractor
    Mahindra 5035 HST

    Default Re: Tier4 What I need to know?

    is this a given for all makes in the year 2013 or are some manufacturers waiting till after 2013?

  9. #9
    Veteran Member MHarryE's Avatar
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    Feb 2009
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    1,212
    Location
    Northeastern Minnesota
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    JD 7720; Kubota M135GX, NH TS115A; JD 6230; Kubota L5740

    Default

    Google off-highway emissions requirements to get the real answer as to what the requirements are. How to get to the requirements varies by manufacturer. deere, for instance, does not believe in DEF so all of their large tractors have large DPF's on the side post of the cab. An on-highway example to follow is Navistar. They said they could meet emissions without DEF but 2 years and millions in fines later, they are introducing Cummins supplied DEF treatment on their little (13 liter) engines to be followed by their 15 liter engines. AGCO has been using DEF on some tractors for many years now claiming to take advantage of the fuel efficiency improvement (including cost of the DEF). Deere says that AGCO is wrong. Just an opinion for what it's worth. My diesel tractor sets off the smoke detector in my garage just like my 2 cycle snowmobile engines did (got rid of them). My cars and pickup don't set off the alarm. If it is smokey enough to set off the alarm, is it really something I want to breath? Also several on TBN have modified their tractors to vertical exhaust because the fumes from the standard exhaust make them sick. Is it worth it? I hope the Tier 4 means higher used prices so I can make a good trade on my current tier4 interim if I like next year's models.
    JD7720; KubotaM135GX; NH TS115A; JD6230; KubotaL5740

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