Shootout at high noon tomorrow

[aczlan]

Dad had an L3650 with filled fronts that didnt have any problems in the ~1400 hours it had when he sold it. It started life as a city machine for plowing sidewalks.

Aaron Z

 

[jmwilson]

Thanks guys on the front tires advice. This is something I need to know before I make the biggert mistake of my life. Man, this is a lot of money for a poor country boy.

 

[sdkubota]

I believe generally the front axle of any tractor has enough weight from the engine and frame to keep it anchored. Filling the rears was developed to better pull tillage implements and improve overall efficiency. There has been numerous discussions about never widening the front axle to improve tipping resistance.

 

[vtsnowedin]

How much of a difference, stability wise, do you think it makes with loaded tires at your 90" width, vs loaded tires at the minimum width, of 79"?
Obviously it is more stable at the wider stance, but I'm curious if it's a LOT more, or just a bit more? Hard to explain I'm sure.

Here is a good explanation of the stability issue. Worth a read before setting up your tractor and working on sloped ground.
http://www.nstmop.psu.edu/tasksheets/4.12 Tractor Stability.pdf

 

[joshuabardwell]

I don't believe fronts are normally filled because of the additional strain it would place on the axle. If a FEL is mounted that provides plenty of weight. Without an FEL I believe front hanging weights are the best solution.

How does it strain the axle? Isn't the weight of a loaded tire riding on the contact patch not the axle?

 

[sdkubota]

How does it strain the axle? Isn't the weight of a loaded tire riding on the contact patch not the axle?

Good question and I believe you are correct about the weight aspect but I believe it increases the inertia of the rotating wheel placing additional strain when turning, changing directions and breaking. I am not an expert in these areas regarding wheels and hopefully someone will jump in who is. Perhaps the front tires are routinely filled with fluid but I am not aware of any except the previous posters comment.

 

[TripleR]

I am pretty sure my manual indicated not to fill the tires. I admittedly don't do everything in the manual, but I have never felt the need to put fluid inn them and don't know all the mechanical reasons. I have seen several people post who put fluid in their front tires; can't say it's bad, just never saw any need to and don't.

Having said all that, I can't help but wonder what effect all that extra weights will have running over rough ground, roads, washouts etc. as a tractor does more than run down a smooth roadway. You have wheel hop, side loading and al sorts of forces depending on what you are doing. With the pivoting front axle, you can sure generate a lot of movement and momentum you won't get with a fixed axle like on the rear.

 

[Gary Fowler]

How does it strain the axle? Isn't the weight of a loaded tire riding on the contact patch not the axle?

You are absolutely correct. Water in the front or rear tires puts less strain on the axles than putting on weights of equal weight. It will create a bit more strain on the fronts when turning if you are running in road gear but at normal operating speeds it would be negligble as far as excess wear. We ran water in all the tires on our big farm tractors and never, I said never had any issue with steering and I am talking about up to 10,000+hours on a tractor. There just isnt that much force generated at slow speed to cause damage. I have no idea why mfgs. say not to fill front tires as tie rod ends on my tractors look plenty heavy to handle the centrifical forces generated without an issue.
As far as turning the front wheel dish, I cant see this being any harder on the wheel bearing either, just transferring the load from outside bearing to inside bearing. It does make it harder to steer though due to the wider distance and more force required to turn the wheel which will cause more wear to the steering arms tie rod ends.
One thing to consider when setting the tire track: Make sure it fits on your trailer. My LS fronts were wider than the rears when I got it. I didnt notice this till I was putting it on the trailer and had to run the fronts over my fenders to load it. Luckily fenders are quiet strong on my trailer. Rears fit just tightly against the fenders @83" in width. I adjusted the fronts to match the centerlines of the rear by moving them in about 4".

 

[ruffdog]

My dad's Case 1390 (David Brown) 4x4 had it's front tires filled before he bought it. It always seemed like there wasn't enough air in the front tires when doing loader work. Then, when he replaced the front tires, he didn't have them filled to save money and felt like it was not needed. Now, with no fluid, they act like they have more air pressure in them and can can go over rocks without squishing down as much. You might say the new tires are stiffer tires, but when he had the first tire replaced, he had the fluid taken out of the other at the same time and it made a huge difference.

 

[ovrszd]

You are absolutely correct. Water in the front or rear tires puts less strain on the axles than putting on weights of equal weight. It will create a bit more strain on the fronts when turning if you are running in road gear but at normal operating speeds it would be negligble as far as excess wear. We ran water in all the tires on our big farm tractors and never, I said never had any issue with steering and I am talking about up to 10,000+hours on a tractor. There just isnt that much force generated at slow speed to cause damage. I have no idea why mfgs. say not to fill front tires as tie rod ends on my tractors look plenty heavy to handle the centrifical forces generated without an issue.
As far as turning the front wheel dish, I cant see this being any harder on the wheel bearing either, just transferring the load from outside bearing to inside bearing. It does make it harder to steer though due to the wider distance and more force required to turn the wheel which will cause more wear to the steering arms tie rod ends.One thing to consider when setting the tire track: Make sure it fits on your trailer. My LS fronts were wider than the rears when I got it. I didnt notice this till I was putting it on the trailer and had to run the fronts over my fenders to load it. Luckily fenders are quiet strong on my trailer. Rears fit just tightly against the fenders @83" in width. I adjusted the fronts to match the centerlines of the rear by moving them in about 4".

I get into this often with my Jeeps. A wheel with less back space puts considerable more pressure on the wheel bearings and, in a Jeep's case, the ball joints. The same effect would happen on a tractor. It's all about leverage. Kinda like pulling a nail with a claw hammer. It's easier if you hang on to the handle out by the end versus closer to the hammer head. Similar leverage is applied when the tire ground contact is made farther from the wheel bearing or ball joint. It would take someone a lot more scientific than I to give us a determination about reaching parts failure earlier with the wheel set out wide. But I know you will.