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  1. #21
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    Bobcat CT225

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by idaho2 View Post
    Keep that close and if asked "say" that you will do personal financing and leave it at that. Negotiate for a price you are happy with and then use your cash as the final negotiating piece. Cash talks loudest at the end. Good luck
    What does the dealer care if you are personal finance vs. cash? Either way he gets a check for the full amount.

    EDIT: I didn't mean to sound short or disagreeable here. I was typing on my phone. It's a sincere question.
    Last edited by joshuabardwell; 02-18-2013 at 12:09 PM.

  2. #22
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    Bobcat CT225

    Default Re: How to negotiate

    Quote Originally Posted by CesumPec View Post
    I can see how the top link would be faster, but never used one, and am wondering how much it would be worth. I'm guessing the cost of the top link would be over $1000.
    For the top link, it is relatively easy and cheap to buy an aftermarket one, and relatively easy to swap it out. Just pull some pins, take off the old one, put on the new one. In fact, you may find that aftermarket ones, such as those sold by W.R. Long here on TBN, are a better buy than what your dealer offers. So if I was in your shoes, I would feel comfortable holding off on the hydraulic top link if I wasn't sure. But the consensus on TBN, by far, is that you should settle on the number of remotes you're going to want when you buy the tractor, because adding them afterwards is much more expensive. As far as I can tell, this is because adding the remotes involves a lot of dealer-specific parts and labor, at least if you want your remotes to look like an integrated part of your tractor, versus a big bank of valves sitting on your fender or something (not that there's anything wrong with that). The dealer is usually willing to cut you a deal on labor installing the remotes, if it helps move the tractor, but once the tractor is out the door, it's full labor cost and thank you very much for your purchase, sir!

    How many remotes you need depends on what you do. I have seen people on TBN say they absolutely could not live without as many as four remotes. For example, with a box blade with hydraulic rippers and hydraulic top/side link, you're at three spools. With a grader blade with hydraulic top/side link and hydraulic tilt/swing, that's four spools. Some people like to control a grapple on their FEL by running a hydraulic line from a rear remote up to the front of the tractor; if you do that, that's an additional spool that will be tied up whenever the grapple is on the tractor. As others have pointed out, if you're going to run a batwing, two is the minimum, but three would allow you to raise/lower the wings separately for finer control. On the other hand, if you never did box/grader blading and only ever wanted to run a wood splitter off your 3ph, a single remote would probably satisfy. The bottom line is that the "right" number of rear remotes depends entirely on what you intend to do with the tractor. More remotes opens up more options for convenience, comfort, and efficiency of work. And you will always be able to think of one more thing you could use a remote for, so if you buy two, within a few years, you may wish you had three.

    Getting back to the hydraulic top link, I think whether you are going to want it will depend a lot on how much work you do with ground-engaging implements like grader blade, box blade, and so forth. Being able to change the aggressiveness of the cutting edge on the fly via a hydraulic top link is a huge boon. It really speeds up work. For me, I wouldn't benefit as much from being able to change the tilt on the fly, but I have heard others say that they'd take a hydraulic side over a hydraulic top any day. A hydraulic top link is also nice if you ever have three-point pallet forks or hay spear, because it allows you to angle them and keep them level as the hitch goes up and down--but with the loader on your tractor, that's probably not a use case you're worried about. On the other hand, if most of my work was mowing, well, I never adjust the top link on the mower once I have it set level, so hydraulic top wouldn't really help me there.

  3. #23
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    Ocala National Forest, FL
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    JCB 214 Loader BackHoe, Farm Tractor TBD

    Default Re: How to negotiate

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuabardwell View Post
    What does the dealer care if you are personal finance vs. cash? Either way he gets a check for the full amount.

    EDIT: I didn't mean to sound short or disagreeable here. I was typing on my phone. It's a sincere question.
    kubota has a 0% finance deal. But nothing is free, so the cost of financing is built into the tractor price. They give you a $1000 discount if you don't take their financing.

  4. #24
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    Northern Fingerlakes region of NY, USA
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    Kubota L3830GST, B7500HST, BX2660

    Default Re: How to negotiate

    One other thing to think of (if you plan on selling this tractor down the road) is that more remotes is a good selling point.

    Aaron Z
    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
    Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love

  5. #25
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    Ocala National Forest, FL
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    JCB 214 Loader BackHoe, Farm Tractor TBD

    Default Re: How to negotiate

    Joshua - that was EXTREMELY informative. I know I need one remote so I'll probably get two. Probably the most hours will be mowing, but I will have a lot of disking and grading as well. Neither the disk, grader, or box blade I've been using have hydraulic adjustments, so maybe I don't know what I'm missing. I'm sure i could have used an adjustable blade when trying to level new pasture after pulling stumps. But the little tractor I was using was not up to the task so everything was VERY time consuming and difficult.

  6. #26
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    Bobcat CT225

    Default Re: How to negotiate

    Quote Originally Posted by CesumPec View Post
    kubota has a 0% finance deal. But nothing is free, so the cost of financing is built into the tractor price. They give you a $1000 discount if you don't take their financing.
    I may be confused. When you said, "personal finance," I thought you meant, like you got your own loan from a credit union. I think I see what you mean now.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: How to negotiate

    Quote Originally Posted by CesumPec View Post
    Joshua - that was EXTREMELY informative. I know I need one remote so I'll probably get two.
    I didn't want to assume that my experience was the same as everybody else's, but IMO two is the sweet spot for number of remotes. It allows you to have hydraulic top link and one other accessory, be that a grapple on the FEL or a side link or hydraulic rippers on a box blade. Three and four-spool use cases are more rare, and are (IMO) reserved for the really big tractors doing really big work (like huge batwings), or for people who have more money than I do--for example, it would be super neat to have a four-way grader blade with everything hydraulic, but there's no way it'd be worth the cost to me to have that. The other reason I like two remotes is that my tractor comes with knock-outs in the operator's station for two remote levers, so if I put more than two, I'd have to find somewhere to mount the spools/levers, and that wouldn't look as spiffy. I know... it's shallow, but what can I say?

  8. #28
    Super Star Member murphy1244's Avatar
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    Ohio
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    Kioti DK-40, MF-135, Ventrac 4500Y

    Default Re: How to negotiate

    I have two remotes on my Kioti DK 40. I use one for Top link and other for Grapple.
    Murph ------------

  9. #29
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    Ocala National Forest, FL
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    JCB 214 Loader BackHoe, Farm Tractor TBD

    Default Re: How to negotiate

    OK, I've just reread the thread and made notes. Will call 3 nearest dealers, follow up with emailed request for bid as speced:

    M7040 2012 model (doesn't have EGR but the 2013 does)
    FEL with 3rd function remote & 72" Quick Attach bucket
    Grill guard
    air seat
    radio/CD
    2 rear remotes
    rear wiper
    filled tires
    insurance

    items still to clarify -

    drawbar clevis (do you suggest aftermarket or at purchase)
    80 AMP alternator (was listed as an option and I will ask the salesman why I would care)
    defogger (I think I should get this. Would be tough on a cold morning if the tractor windows fog as bad as a car does)
    hooks on bucket (If someone can post a photo of a good set up would be much appreciated)

    Many thanks for all your help.

  10. #30
    Super Star Member
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    Northern Fingerlakes region of NY, USA
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    Kubota L3830GST, B7500HST, BX2660

    Default Re: How to negotiate

    Quote Originally Posted by CesumPec View Post
    drawbar clevis (do you suggest aftermarket or at purchase)
    Buy aftermarket if they want more than $15-20ish for a 3/4" pin one or $20-30ish for a 1" pin one.

    Quote Originally Posted by CesumPec View Post
    80 AMP alternator (was listed as an option and I will ask the salesman why I would care)
    Will give you more power to run lights, an inverter, the defogger while running lights, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by CesumPec View Post
    defogger (I think I should get this. Would be tough on a cold morning if the tractor windows fog as bad as a car does)
    Yep

    Quote Originally Posted by CesumPec View Post
    hooks on bucket (If someone can post a photo of a good set up would be much appreciated)
    With hooks, you can get either a "grab hook" or a "slip hook" A grab hook will lock onto a link of chain and not let it move. A slip hook will let it slide through.
    Many people put in a slip hook for the center hook.
    Generally, people will use grab hooks for the outer hooks. There are 2 schools of thought on the outer hooks:
    1. Put them in line with the bucket rams, this way you want "rack" the bucket (ie: twist it along its "wide" dimension) by using just one hook with a heavy load
    2. Put them on the outer corners, this way you risk "racking" the bucket but if you use both you can in some cases get a better grab with chains that are more separated.

    Some people will also mount a 2" receiver to the middle of the bucket to put in a hitch to allow moving trailers more easily.

    Aaron Z
    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
    Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love

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