Comparison Fresh LS Tractor J2030H info

[Singalo]

Signalo,

I just took a quick comparison look at the MH GC1710 vs. the LS J2030H, and to be honest with you price aside (since I dont know the price of either really) to me, I would much rather have the LS, and have to deal with a dealer 1.5 hours away vs a closer one.

The LS specs out to be a bigger tractor in several ways, and for the most part, not really size. The loader lifts more, lifts higher, with more force, and better angles. Same with the backhoe (with exception of total digging depth is about the same). The backhoe rotates much farther (180* vs 140*) which can mean a much when using a backhoe. I even noticed the hydraulic pump flow rating is considerably higher on the LS. One more thing I noticed, is the LS uses a Mitsubishi engine. I am not sure what brand engine the Massey has, but the Mitsu is a tried and true engine. My Bolens has a 3 cyl Mitsu in it from the early 80's. Runs like a champ, and i never touch it.

Also, I dont know what the MH warranty is, but I know its 5 years on the LS. Knowing the supplying dealer is willing to cover any 'travel' costs for warranty work for the entire 5 years kinda makes the 1.5 hours away a moot point. I do understand that for 'routine maintenance' that may be an issue, but honestly that maintenance is mostly oil/filter changes. Its something that any DIY'r can handle. By the time said 5 year warranty expires, its very likely you may have another if not several other dealers available....


Another interesting tidbit to ponder (and I really dont know what your budget is...) But I compared the J series dimensions to the R series that I bought. The R is about 10" wider, and 15" longer. Really, thats not 'that' much bigger physically, but a heck of a bunch more tractor!. I know the R series does have an available mid PTO, although I am not sure if they have a MMM for it....


Long story short, based on what I have seen of LS's reputation for quality, their stellar 5 year warranty, Paige's 'free warranty transport', and the impressive specs of the J vs the GS; Hands down, I would choose the J. I would have no issue buying from a dealer 1.5 hours away. I have no intentions of having to use the dealer for very much at all, and especially nothing really thats not warranty work.

Magnus:

As always, I don't disagree with any of this. In fact, at one time or another I have stated or eluded to all of these size/power facts. Indeed, that's exactly why I am looking at the J to start with. I wanted a little bit more power, and a little more ground clearance without having to go considerably larger. I take your point on the dimensions of the tractor you bought compared to the J. But three things really. Your tractor is considerably larger then the GC I originally started out looking to buy. Also, your tractor is considerably heavier then the GC. I can still trailer the J with the equipment I have. I would not stand a chance of moving your tractor without investing in new equipment. And lastly, I do not require the power your tractor provides. I am going to be doing a whole lot of lawn mowing over the next 20 years, and I really don't want to do that with anything bigger then the J.

So suffice to say, or shall I say repeat. The deciding factors have much more to do with how comfortable I am with the potential service I will get, how difficult it is to get back and forth to the dealer I do business with, and figuring out some of the unknown factors with the tractor. Many of those factors were answered today at the Tractor Show. That's for the next post.

[Singalo]

SO,,, I spent the day at the Tractor show. Had a great time and got to see loads of great stuff that had nothing to do with my personal tractor oddessy. The timberfox wood processing demo was great.

I stopped in and said Hi to all the dealers, and spent some time on my back checking out these hydraulic cooling fans on the three tractors I am most likely to end up with. First up, the Kubota. B2620 is integrated into the radiator. Very cool.

The GC,,, it has the fan off the transmission, and it is exposed. No two ways around that. More in a sec on this.

The J has a nearly identical fan set up to the GC. The only real difference is that the J is a bit higher off the ground. In either case, if there was even like a 1% chance that a stick, branch, pricker bush or anything could pop up under the tractor, the fan in it's current off the show room floor configuration is in great danger of being smashed to bits. Anyone that might go into the woods, or would be clearing land, or basically be doing anything besides yard work where there were no branches, stick or what have you laying around, would want to seek immediate skid plate modifications to add protection. As the B2620 was finally completely ruled out, finding some kind of a skid plate, aftermarket or fabricated will be the first priority before either tractor that is left goes to work. The good thing about either the GC or the J is that fabricating a skid plate should be relatively easy.

With regards to a thread I was reading concerning bolts loosening up on the J. Bob, from Paige equipment talked to me about this. He has assured me that if the tractor is ordered from the assembly factory set up as you order it, that it is delivered to their shop completely set up. There is a high probability that the assembly plant in NC is torquing all of the bolts. Obviously this does not mean that an occasional bolt may be missed. But interestingly, Bob told me that their shop indeed goes over the tractors a second time to make sure everything is fastened down properly. Again, this is not to say that you will never find a loose bolt. But the point is, these tractors should not be, or are known to have an issue with "Rattling Apart". He went on to say, That when items are added at the dealership, there have been stories where the dealers workmanship has not been up par, and things were not properly torqued down, leading to loose bolts. Bob assures me that their shop is well aware of the need to torque things down and that is one of the things they take responsibility for. MUSIC TO MY EARS.

On to the Backhoe and MMM and how they play together. This is what totally shut down the Bota beyond any doubt. In order to put the MMM on the bota, you have to pull a bracket off. You can't pull the bracket, via the service manager, without pulling the rear tires off. Disqualified.

On the GC, the package is specifically designed to be able to swap out the FEL, BH and MMM with minimal trouble. But then, that is the case with most SCUT's.

The J Bob tells me, has a bracket that also needs to be removed, but there are 4, down from the 8 they first thought, bolts that must be removed to accomplish this. At least you don't need to take the rear tires off. Interestingly, while I was talking to the New Holland Dealer about the same issue, he told me that their set up does not require you to remove a similar bracket. This would be a very nice bonus. I have some feelers out to verify if Bob's take on the bracket is completely accurate. Until I talked to him today and got him to fish around a bit, he didn't think the J's deck was Drive over either. But after talking to the LS rep that was there, they decided that the deck was indeed a drive over. He also told me that you have to remove the three point arms and links in order to mount the backhoe. Not that this is a big deal, they are just pined on. But I have from another source that you don't actually need to take them off. Feelers out there on this also. So I am hopeful that there may be even a small possibility that he might be incorrect on having to take the bracket off as well. That would be just excellent if it turned out to be the case. Still, even if it turns out not to be the case, at least you don't have to take the rear tires off.

The last thing I noticed while laying on my back under the J was the shaft that delivers power to the front wheels. To be honest, this shaft did not appear to be very beefy. I would have liked to see a bit more meat on this shaft and the u joints. How big of a deal is this? No clue. The only thing I can attest to is that the same shaft on other tractors do not appear to be any different. So it's probably not a big deal at all. But it would have made me feel better to see a bit more meat.

Price. Well, The GC1710 TLB with 60" MMM is just over 22k.

The J, same TLB config with same 60" MMM, PLUS, mechanical thumb and tooth bar is looking like its going to be just under 22k, with a 300 dollar discount for having gone to the show.

Dollar for dollar, spec for spec, quality for quality. Unless you needed a GC sized tractor, the LS J appears to be a better deal. The acceptation being rather or not you can find a suitable dealer that is close enough to you. No thanks to the LS website, MAGNUS put me on to Paige Equipment who turned out to be every bit the gentleman and scholar that Magnus reported him to be. I had a good conversation with his Service guy, Bob, who answered all of my questions and set my mind to ease on a great many things. I feel if everything is true that was told to me today, that they will render the service everyone deserves. And to get the size tractor I want, I am willing to do business 1.5 hours away. Further, anyone that is looking for a similar sized tractor, quality wise, the J is a real contender. Some things to think about is the fact that it does have a Rocker Foot pedal, which overall I am not really fond of. Id prefer the side by side pedals. But as it turns out, if you want this size tractor, your options are limited. Not non existent, but limited. The cockpit layout is as comfortable, "To Me" as any tractor that I saw and liked. FEL does have boom float by the way.

Now that I have a reasonable chance to expect proper service, I am running out of reasons why this should not be the tractor for me.

[Singalo]

One bit of info I forgot. Regarding the Electronic PTO engagement. Bob tells me, or maybe that was John, anyhow, tells me that there is an adjustment for this that is made at the factory that is supposed to ramp the oil pressure up slowly so that you don't go instantly to full PTO speed. But, this situation where engaging the PTO and having it slam in, often braking shear pins and so on is not unheard of. But there is a simple correction for this by just adjusting how fast or slow the oil pressure ramps up. This all sounds frankly like what you would expect. I am not certain why the poster of the other thread concerning this issue was having such an Issue with the New Holland counterpart. But I am assured that they have never personally experienced the issue first hand with one of the J's. Good enough. Thanks Paige Equipment.

[Gary Fowler]

Boom float is not unusual to find on a tractor as most of them have it. Some one posted wanting to know if a backhoe had boom float, never heard of anything like that and what would you need it for anyway. You aren't supposed to drive and drag the hoe as you are looking for a potentially big repair bill to the backhoe if you do.
If you go back to some of your very first posts, you will find that many folks stated, "you get more for less with LS" and that includes quality of build, warranty (5 years), comfort and factory options and ease of use features. I don't know if the J series has telescoping 3 PH lift arms but those are sure nice to have on the larger tractors where you are hooking up to heavy equipment, the kind that you cant very well move by hand.

[Singalo]

If you go back to some of your very first posts, you will find that many folks stated, "you get more for less with LS" and that includes quality of build, warranty (5 years), comfort and factory .

Sigh.

I know Gary. I know. And lord help us all, I say again that I never disagreed with the quality of the tractors. I did say that Mahindra was Primitive. And they are. I did lump LS into a category (I CALL) economy tractors. They are. Now you can take away from that what you like. But all I meant, and stated as such, is that these are cheaper tractors. And they are. The J with Thumb attachment and tooth bar is cheaper then the GC. And I also stated then, and do now again, that these tractors are cheaper because you are giving something up with them. I said, let's not pretend that you are getting something for nothing. As Nice as the LS tractors are, they are lacking the Dealership Network, the reputation and resale-ability that you get with more mainstream brands. It's ok to disagree with this. But I do think that if and when LS ever becomes a star player, you won't find the prices quite so economy. but only time will tell.

The boom float on the backhoe helps with digging a flat bottom in a trench. It is much easier to concentrate on one joystick and let the other float, instead of having to feather both joysticks at once. This was demonstrated to me and it looks to work well, after you get the hang of it. Yes, I am sure that it's just as easy to dig a trench without a boom float. Tomato, tomato. And it was also demonstrated as being a nice advantage for filling in the trench afterwards. You can scrape the ground and push dirt back into the trench by letting the boom float. It's just a nicety, not a necessity.

[ozley]

One bit of info I forgot. Regarding the Electronic PTO engagement. Bob tells me, or maybe that was John, anyhow, tells me that there is an adjustment for this that is made at the factory that is supposed to ramp the oil pressure up slowly so that you don't go instantly to full PTO speed. But, this situation where engaging the PTO and having it slam in, often braking shear pins and so on is not unheard of. But there is a simple correction for this by just adjusting how fast or slow the oil pressure ramps up. This all sounds frankly like what you would expect. I am not certain why the poster of the other thread concerning this issue was having such an Issue with the New Holland counterpart. But I am assured that they have never personally experienced the issue first hand with one of the J's. Good enough. Thanks Paige Equipment.

Is anyone have this problem on a LS tractor. I put the tractor down to 850 to 900 RPM's and throw the switch and find 8' rotary cutter starts fine. All that I can tell is the tail starts to wag.

[Singalo]

Is anyone have this problem on a LS tractor. I put the tractor down to 850 to 900 RPM's and throw the switch and find 8' rotary cutter starts fine. All that I can tell is the tail starts to wag.

The idle speed of the J is 1400 RPM, you can't go slower unless you have the dealer adjust it. And Paige Equipment said they have not had a problem with any of the tractors they have sold, but it is not unheard of to have an out of adjustment issue where the PTO goes instantly to full RPM. PTO RPM, not engine RPM.

[ozley]

The idle speed of the J is 1400 RPM, you can't go slower unless you have the dealer adjust it. And Paige Equipment said they have not had a problem with any of the tractors they have sold, but it is not unheard of to have an out of adjustment issue where the PTO goes instantly to full RPM. PTO RPM, not engine RPM.

Is anyone with a LS having this trouble going to full 540 rpm with the throttle set at idle.

[ozley]

Is anyone with a LS having this trouble going to full 540 rpm with the throttle set at idle.

Sorry I thought I was in the LS forum. I will ask there.

[MessickFarmEqu]

On to the Backhoe and MMM and how they play together. This is what totally shut down the Bota beyond any doubt. In order to put the MMM on the bota, you have to pull a bracket off. You can't pull the bracket, via the service manager, without pulling the rear tires off. Disqualified. .

Just an FYI, as you seem to have already made up your mind... but this is not true. Having done it several times myself, you most certialy do not need to remove the tires.