Well. Today was a full day, many miles logged and new intel uncovered.
9:30 am this morning, I was at the New Holland dealer in Auburn NY to look at the Boomer 25, which is the equivalent to the LS J2030h. I went to look at this because finding the J was proving to be nearly impossible. First impressions were good as far as the tractor goes. Though I found out that the cowl and fenders were plastic. Not a fan of this. Got to see the rocker pedal up close. Don't know how I feel about that, would need some real seat time to evaluate. Cockpit layout is as good as any tractor I have seen and liked. Electronic PTO engage is a nice bonus. The loader on the Boomer 25 is abysmal however. The hoses are "Spaghettified" and the couplers are directly underneath the right foot board exposed to pretty much everything. And a hydraulic line is drooping down running somewhere to the back. The FEL was enough to make me Give up altogether. The tractor all by itself seems like a nice unit though. TLB with 60" MMM was quoted as 27k and change.
Dismayed with what I saw at the New Holland Dealer, I next went to the Fair Grounds to get my first look at the J, which is owned by Paige Equipment out in Williamson NY. Luckily for me, I didn't have to drive an hour and a half out there to see it. Tractor for tractor, the only differences I could detect were in the badgeing and the color of some plastic bits. The instrument panel was slightly different also, with the LS having an analog Tach and the Boomer having a digital. But the real surprise was in the FEL. New Holland uses their own loader I guess. The FEL on the LS was FAR superior in both overall design and in the hydraulic layout. The hoses are for the most part all hid, the couplers are protected on the back side of the FEL arm. The joy stick on the New Holland was a bit nicer being built into the rear fender. But the short joystick on the LS is in perfect reach and easy to use. Of the two, the LS is set up better then the New Holland. One thing I did note however was that the hydraulic speed of the loader was somewhat slower then on other tractors I have driven. Slower then the GC that I was set to buy.
The LS J series is smack dab in the middle of most SCUT sized tractors, and the smallest Cut Tractors offered by most other brands. One notable acceptation being the Mahindra Max 25. Frame wise, the J and Max are about the same size. But the J weighs like 250 LBS less and is laid out much more to my liking. The B2920 is ever so slightly larger. Actually, that may be purely an aesthetic judgement. The B's seem to me to be a bit longer and a bit narrower. But the two weigh nearly the same. In my opinion, the proportions on the LS look better. A bit shorter and a bit wider. I took a trip out to Whites Farm equipment to take yet another look at the B's to confirm this. I didn't take any measurements, but visually this seems to be the case.
Found out about how the FEL, Hoe and MMM all attach. The FEL is as simple to take on and off as any on the market. The Hoe, not as easy as some, but still not terribly complicated. The Hoe has an under carriage that mounts mid section and back by the tow bar. Two pins hold this sub frame and hoe in place. Getting the whole assembly in place is a bit more finikey on this tractor then some others I have seen. But the whole operation looks as if it should take less then ten min with no heavy lifting. However, there is a bracket that the hoe sub frame locks into that is bolted to the underside of the tractor. When ever you want to put the MMM on, it is recommended that you remove this bracket which is bolted on with 8 bolts. You don't strictly need to pull this bracket off, but I am told that it seriously impends how high you can raise the deck. I am assured that taking this bracket on and off is not difficult or takes very long. However, you still must lay on your back and do this every time you want to swap between backhoe and MMM. Kind of a pain in the nuts as far as I am concerned. Though I guess, grudgingly, this is the price for having a ridged mounting system for the backhoe. As far as connecting the MMM, once the bracket for the backhoe is removed, it's as simple as watching the New Holland Video for the Boomer 50 demonstrating how. It's really very easy. Oddly enough, the best of the three dealers I talked to for LS Tractors, Paige Equipment, didn't seem to know that the J Series had drive over decks. The pictures I saw of the decks on these look Identical in build to the NH Decks. But, maybe they are not and maybe they are not Driver over. The FEL is certainly different on the two. But I know for a fact that the Boomer 25 does have a drive over deck.
All and all, the LS J looks to be a solid tractor. Nicely layed out and plenty of features. Two features missing however that the GC did have was a backhoe Boom Float, and a FEL Boom Float. Not features that are necessarily game changing. But they are nice just the same. OH, and while I was at the Massey dealer again today, I discovered that the GC does not have a floating Deck, but a suspended deck. The Boomer 25 has a fully floating deck. I have not yet confirmed if the LS J has the same Drive Over Floating deck.
Lastly, TRIP, if you happen to read this.
With re guards to position control. I asked each of the dealers I talked to today, NH, Massey, Kubota and the LS guy what the difference is. And all four said basically the same thing. There is something called draft control, that basically keeps field plows from digging too deep. Self adjusting. Most ag tractors have draft control. These four dealers claim that every other Three Point Hitch has "Position Control". That is, you can raise or lower your implement to a given height, and then leave it. It is NOT an all up or all down situation. I explained to each in turn the notion that a "Non Position Control" Three Point Hitch does this, however over time they would "Drift". And that the difference between Position control and NON Position control was this "Drift". They all said this "Notion" was dead wrong, and that if there is any drift, that there is something wrong with the Three Point Hitch. Some tractors have slide gauges, some have positive stop quarter inching brackets that look like saws teeth. And others have a hand adjusted clamp so that you can raise and lower the Three Point Hitch to the same position every time with out having to fiddle with it. But this Drift factor is just a faulty three point hitch.
I will have more to follow with Pricing as it comes in on the J. Paige Equipment was able to quote 21k and change for a TLB with 60" MMM, but said there would be extra incentives for signing up at the tractor show this week. I note, of the other dealers I talked to, LS is THE ONLY ONE offering additional incentives for Show Goers. The GC 1710 TLB with 60" MMM was 22k and Change. The GC has some features I like better. But then the J has some features that are better then the GC. And The J is simply "More" of everything for what is looking like will be less money. The one SERIOUS DRAWBACK for the J is that the seemingly only competent dealer is 1.5 hours away. But at least I was able to find one that seems to be a real "Dealer" and not just a guy selling them out of his back lawn.
More to come.
9:30 am this morning, I was at the New Holland dealer in Auburn NY to look at the Boomer 25, which is the equivalent to the LS J2030h. I went to look at this because finding the J was proving to be nearly impossible. First impressions were good as far as the tractor goes. Though I found out that the cowl and fenders were plastic. Not a fan of this. Got to see the rocker pedal up close. Don't know how I feel about that, would need some real seat time to evaluate. Cockpit layout is as good as any tractor I have seen and liked. Electronic PTO engage is a nice bonus. The loader on the Boomer 25 is abysmal however. The hoses are "Spaghettified" and the couplers are directly underneath the right foot board exposed to pretty much everything. And a hydraulic line is drooping down running somewhere to the back. The FEL was enough to make me Give up altogether. The tractor all by itself seems like a nice unit though. TLB with 60" MMM was quoted as 27k and change.
Dismayed with what I saw at the New Holland Dealer, I next went to the Fair Grounds to get my first look at the J, which is owned by Paige Equipment out in Williamson NY. Luckily for me, I didn't have to drive an hour and a half out there to see it. Tractor for tractor, the only differences I could detect were in the badgeing and the color of some plastic bits. The instrument panel was slightly different also, with the LS having an analog Tach and the Boomer having a digital. But the real surprise was in the FEL. New Holland uses their own loader I guess. The FEL on the LS was FAR superior in both overall design and in the hydraulic layout. The hoses are for the most part all hid, the couplers are protected on the back side of the FEL arm. The joy stick on the New Holland was a bit nicer being built into the rear fender. But the short joystick on the LS is in perfect reach and easy to use. Of the two, the LS is set up better then the New Holland. One thing I did note however was that the hydraulic speed of the loader was somewhat slower then on other tractors I have driven. Slower then the GC that I was set to buy.
The LS J series is smack dab in the middle of most SCUT sized tractors, and the smallest Cut Tractors offered by most other brands. One notable acceptation being the Mahindra Max 25. Frame wise, the J and Max are about the same size. But the J weighs like 250 LBS less and is laid out much more to my liking. The B2920 is ever so slightly larger. Actually, that may be purely an aesthetic judgement. The B's seem to me to be a bit longer and a bit narrower. But the two weigh nearly the same. In my opinion, the proportions on the LS look better. A bit shorter and a bit wider. I took a trip out to Whites Farm equipment to take yet another look at the B's to confirm this. I didn't take any measurements, but visually this seems to be the case.
Found out about how the FEL, Hoe and MMM all attach. The FEL is as simple to take on and off as any on the market. The Hoe, not as easy as some, but still not terribly complicated. The Hoe has an under carriage that mounts mid section and back by the tow bar. Two pins hold this sub frame and hoe in place. Getting the whole assembly in place is a bit more finikey on this tractor then some others I have seen. But the whole operation looks as if it should take less then ten min with no heavy lifting. However, there is a bracket that the hoe sub frame locks into that is bolted to the underside of the tractor. When ever you want to put the MMM on, it is recommended that you remove this bracket which is bolted on with 8 bolts. You don't strictly need to pull this bracket off, but I am told that it seriously impends how high you can raise the deck. I am assured that taking this bracket on and off is not difficult or takes very long. However, you still must lay on your back and do this every time you want to swap between backhoe and MMM. Kind of a pain in the nuts as far as I am concerned. Though I guess, grudgingly, this is the price for having a ridged mounting system for the backhoe. As far as connecting the MMM, once the bracket for the backhoe is removed, it's as simple as watching the New Holland Video for the Boomer 50 demonstrating how. It's really very easy. Oddly enough, the best of the three dealers I talked to for LS Tractors, Paige Equipment, didn't seem to know that the J Series had drive over decks. The pictures I saw of the decks on these look Identical in build to the NH Decks. But, maybe they are not and maybe they are not Driver over. The FEL is certainly different on the two. But I know for a fact that the Boomer 25 does have a drive over deck.
All and all, the LS J looks to be a solid tractor. Nicely layed out and plenty of features. Two features missing however that the GC did have was a backhoe Boom Float, and a FEL Boom Float. Not features that are necessarily game changing. But they are nice just the same. OH, and while I was at the Massey dealer again today, I discovered that the GC does not have a floating Deck, but a suspended deck. The Boomer 25 has a fully floating deck. I have not yet confirmed if the LS J has the same Drive Over Floating deck.
Lastly, TRIP, if you happen to read this.
With re guards to position control. I asked each of the dealers I talked to today, NH, Massey, Kubota and the LS guy what the difference is. And all four said basically the same thing. There is something called draft control, that basically keeps field plows from digging too deep. Self adjusting. Most ag tractors have draft control. These four dealers claim that every other Three Point Hitch has "Position Control". That is, you can raise or lower your implement to a given height, and then leave it. It is NOT an all up or all down situation. I explained to each in turn the notion that a "Non Position Control" Three Point Hitch does this, however over time they would "Drift". And that the difference between Position control and NON Position control was this "Drift". They all said this "Notion" was dead wrong, and that if there is any drift, that there is something wrong with the Three Point Hitch. Some tractors have slide gauges, some have positive stop quarter inching brackets that look like saws teeth. And others have a hand adjusted clamp so that you can raise and lower the Three Point Hitch to the same position every time with out having to fiddle with it. But this Drift factor is just a faulty three point hitch.
I will have more to follow with Pricing as it comes in on the J. Paige Equipment was able to quote 21k and change for a TLB with 60" MMM, but said there would be extra incentives for signing up at the tractor show this week. I note, of the other dealers I talked to, LS is THE ONLY ONE offering additional incentives for Show Goers. The GC 1710 TLB with 60" MMM was 22k and Change. The GC has some features I like better. But then the J has some features that are better then the GC. And The J is simply "More" of everything for what is looking like will be less money. The one SERIOUS DRAWBACK for the J is that the seemingly only competent dealer is 1.5 hours away. But at least I was able to find one that seems to be a real "Dealer" and not just a guy selling them out of his back lawn.
More to come.
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