Comparison JD 1026 vs Kioti CS2410 - 2.5 acres

[Singalo]

I also wanted add that I think position control would be real handy for plowing, tilling, or something that requires lifting the 3PH repeatedly and setting it back to the same height each time.

This is probably not the appropriate place to talk about it. But this comment is a Prime Example of the confusion surrounding "Position Control".

Correct me please if I am wrong bullitt, but one may infer from your comment, that position control refers to the ability to place a 3pt implement back to the same position without the need for diddling around.

Another popular idea, and one that at least sounds pluasible, is that position control refers to the hydraulics ability to "Self Regulate" and thereby do away with the effects of "Drift", or the sagging of the 3pt hitch due to acceptable "Leakage".

Recently, I was told by no less then 4 dealers of different brands that if the 3pt is "Drifting", then there is a problem with the 3pt hitch. Further, position control simply meant that the tractor has the ability to move the 3pt hitch up or down and stop it at any point along the full length of it's travel. As opposed to being all up or all down.

I JUST got done watching a New Holland comparison video to a JD tractor that eluded to the notion that position control was the ability to place a 3pt implement back to the same place every time, a feature that the JD did not have.

Still, some dealers I talked to had NO IDEA what the heck I was asking about. Specifically regarding rather or not their tractor had Position control. No kidding, had no Idea what I was talking about. One of these was a Kubota Dealer. A second being a Mahindra Dealer.

The LS Brochure for the J specifically lists in its list of standard features, position control. Yet in a Tractor.com review of the Boomer 25, they list the lack of a position control as one of the cons.

The available information, or should I say disinformation, from what are supposed to be higher authorities on such matters, is nothing less then confused at the best of times. I would expect different takes on this "Feature" from random people on TBN. But it is rather irksome that dealers of these tractors across the board can't seem to give you a straight answer. Or any answer at all in some cases.

 

[JMER]

I came across the same thing regarding dealers confusion on position control. The MF dealer was one that did actually know what it was (and the 2600 does not have it), however I think the 3PH control on the 2600 will work fine for my uses... though I will report back how it works for me once I get in the dirt.

 

[94BULLITT]

Well, I finally made a decision - going with the MF GC2600. Really liked the dealer and they got me tractor w/FEL, tooth bar, free 50 hour service, loaded tires, box blade and spike harrow for under $12,500 out the door. It was the last 2600 they had before being replaced w/the new tier 4 compliant model.

I'm going to get a used lawn tractor for now for the 1/3 acre bermuda sod to mow this summer... Once I get the fescue growing well next season I may get the MMM for the tractor but for now this equipment setup will meet my needs and keep me in budget!

Hoping for delivery Friday, I'll post some pictures next week! Thanks very much to everyone for helping me decide.

Congrats on the purchase. Good luck with it and be safe.

This is probably not the appropriate place to talk about it. But this comment is a Prime Example of the confusion surrounding "Position Control".

Correct me please if I am wrong bullitt, but one may infer from your comment, that position control refers to the ability to place a 3pt implement back to the same position without the need for diddling around.

Yes you are correct.

Another popular idea, and one that at least sounds pluasible, is that position control refers to the hydraulics ability to "Self Regulate" and thereby do away with the effects of "Drift", or the sagging of the 3pt hitch due to acceptable "Leakage".

Recently, I was told by no less then 4 dealers of different brands that if the 3pt is "Drifting", then there is a problem with the 3pt hitch. Further, position control simply meant that the tractor has the ability to move the 3pt hitch up or down and stop it at any point along the full length of it's travel. As opposed to being all up or all down.

You should not notice any drift on the 3PH. I guess if you left a heavy load on the 3PH all day and you did not have position control there may be some leakage. Under normal operation you will not notice it leaking.

I JUST got done watching a New Holland comparison video to a JD tractor that eluded to the notion that position control was the ability to place a 3pt implement back to the same place every time, a feature that the JD did not have.

The JD 1 series has position control. What tractor did they have in the video.

Still, some dealers I talked to had NO IDEA what the heck I was asking about. Specifically regarding rather or not their tractor had Position control. No kidding, had no Idea what I was talking about. One of these was a Kubota Dealer. A second being a Mahindra Dealer.

The LS Brochure for the J specifically lists in its list of standard features, position control. Yet in a Tractor.com review of the Boomer 25, they list the lack of a position control as one of the cons.

The available information, or should I say disinformation, from what are supposed to be higher authorities on such matters, is nothing less then confused at the best of times. I would expect different takes on this "Feature" from random people on TBN. But it is rather irksome that dealers of these tractors across the board can't seem to give you a straight answer. Or any answer at all in some cases.

Some dealers are pathetic. They don't know anything about their product. I like to ask them questions to see what goofy answer they will give me.

 

[Singalo]

Congrats on the purchase. Good luck with it and be safe.



Yes you are correct.



You should not notice any drift on the 3PH. I guess if you left a heavy load on the 3PH all day and you did not have position control there may be some leakage. Under normal operation you will not notice it leaking.



The JD 1 series has position control. What tractor did they have in the video.



Some dealers are pathetic. They don't know anything about their product. I like to ask them questions to see what goofy answer they will give me.

What you consider to be position control is the way I used to think of it. But there are plenty of folks on here that hold to the self regulating, anti drift theory as being the true nature of position control. Frankly, I can't find a definitive answer one way or the other. So I am in the camp now of "I don't really know".

 

[ozley]

Here is how it was thought of in 1951
http://books.google.com/books?id=Np...a=X&ei=Ipg2UYLZDJSu8QTXzoHoCA&ved=0CFcQ6AEwBg

 

[94BULLITT]

What you consider to be position control is the way I used to think of it. But there are plenty of folks on here that hold to the self regulating, anti drift theory as being the true nature of position control. Frankly, I can't find a definitive answer one way or the other. So I am in the camp now of "I don't really know".

With position control with the tractor running and 3PH lever left in one place the 3PH will not drift down. With a neutral lift after hours with a heavy load you may notice some leakage but very very very minimal if everything is working properly. I don't think it is anything to worry about. It is not like you are going to have a blade on the 3PH and drive 500' and the 3PH leaked down 5." In fact it may take days for it to leak down.

 

[jenkinsph]

With position control with the tractor running and 3PH lever left in one place the 3PH will not drift down. With a neutral lift after hours with a heavy load you may notice some leakage but very very very minimal if everything is working properly. I don't think it is anything to worry about. It is not like you are going to have a blade on the 3PH and drive 500' and the 3PH leaked down 5." In fact it may take days for it to leak down.

Position control will correct for drift or leak down of the 3PH as you mention because the feedback circuit will maintain the set position. You can get a small amount of variation or leak down but it should be self correcting, my 820 will leak down about 1/4" over 10 to 15 minutes but will then raise itself back up. This can continue for as long as the tractor is running. I look at this as a bonus feature rather than the main purpose though. Position control really is considered to provide a feedback reference of the position of the 3PH lower arms in relation to the control lever.

I find this most useful when performing tasks such as raking or brush hogging where repeatable depths are desired. If you have a center detent control valve without position control and little or no leakdown in the hydraulic circuits I can get good results with most tools including boxblades. Such is the case with my x749 and years ago with my Case SC tractor and Eagle hitch, both will hold an implement in position without leaking down for a month or more.

 

[Grandad4]

With position control with the tractor running and 3PH lever left in one place the 3PH will not drift down. With a neutral lift after hours with a heavy load you may notice some leakage but very very very minimal if everything is working properly. I don't think it is anything to worry about. It is not like you are going to have a blade on the 3PH and drive 500' and the 3PH leaked down 5." In fact it may take days for it to leak down.

+1 What he said. Any tractor, regardless of what type of lift control the 3 pt has, should not "drift" down so you have to re-adjust it all the time. If it's doing that, there is something worn or leaking in the hydraulics. That's not uncommon with 50 year old Fords, Massey Fergusons, etc., but you have to respect the thousands of hours operation it took for them to get that way.

 

[Singalo]

I am going to move this conversation to it's own thread, because I think there is a valuable discussion to be had.

 

[Singalo]

I came across the same thing regarding dealers confusion on position control. The MF dealer was one that did actually know what it was (and the 2600 does not have it), however I think the 3PH control on the 2600 will work fine for my uses... though I will report back how it works for me once I get in the dirt.

Can you please explain why your new tractor does not have PC as per your Dealers explanation?

Please post your answer here: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/273232-debating-position-control-what-you.html