Now I'm really confused...

[autotech]

Now I\'m really confused...

Well, having had some experienced MF folks steer me away from the 65 I was looking at, I'm now searching again. Unfortunately with every new answer comes 4 new questions.....!!!!

I'm looking for an older tractor in decent condition, probably something from the late 50's (?) or earlier. I'm not afraid on some maintainance, and I am negotiating for a separate loader/backhoe so I don't need to use the ag tractor for that type of work.

The MF 65 seemed a great fit, but this one had some issues.

My questions are these:

What year did live PTO's become pretty standard? Or is this just a model by model thing?
How important is a live PTO really? I will be row cropping (corn, pumpkins, etc) and field mowing on about 16 acres total.
I was told the MF 65 with a gas engine was very thirsty. Should I be looking for a diesel, or at these ages does it really matter? Most of the older stuff seems to be gas (ok by me - it's what I know)
I'd prefer a "tractor looking" tractor - as opposed to something like an 8N - I know they are great units, but I'd like something that looks less automotive and more agricultural.

Anybody have any reccomendations?

Thanks

Gregg

 

[SteveM]

Re: Now I\'m really confused...

The Live PTO thing can go on for ever, but for your uses I would not see it as a requirement. Field mowing is pretty well suited to a tranny driven PTO since you wont be changing direction too often. I am less familiar with the implements you will be using for your planting and harvesting, if any.

I dont know why you were talked out of the MF 65, certainly a good tractor all around, but maybe that specific one had troubles. The MF 135 and 150 are everywhere I look, and I wouldnt think it would take too long to find a clean one to your liking and price range. I also hear good things about Oliver tractors, many of which had live PTO and power steering.

When it comes to old tractors, I am a ford fan. But absent that there seem to be plenty of other choices with good parts support etc. Check out ytmag.com to talk about the oldies.

 

[RedDog]

Re: Now I\'m really confused...

autotech,

Whoever told you the MF65 is thirsty must have had a hole in his tank. Mine was far from it.

I sold it to my Dad who still has it, and it runs very well. Last time I checked, it had around 14,000 hours on it. We mow with a 12' bushhog behind it /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. Yes I said 12 Foot!! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Tractor has never tried to overheat.

In summary, the 65 is a great tractor!

RedDog

 

[yellowsocks93]

Re: Now I\'m really confused...

The Massey 135 is a great machine. It is gas powered and I would take a look at one if I were you. It was my grandpa's and we have had no problems with it.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Re: Now I\'m really confused...

I have a 1956 Oliver Super 55 Diesel. It is comparable in size to the Ford 8n to 2000 series tractors but the Olivers had live PTOs while the Fords didn't get them until a bit later. I have no idea how that compares in size to the MF, but I would steer clear of GAS engines if I could.

GAS versus DIESEL, there is simply no comparison and the diesel wins hands down on several counts. It is more economical burning less fuel and it also requires lower maintainence. You typically get gobs (gobs being a technical term for "a lot) more torque and you get longer life out of the engine because the lubricating properties of the fuel itself.

I have a medium duty truck fleet and we typically get 300,000 plus miles out of an engine before we need any major work, typcially we trash our gas engines before they hit 150,000 miles.

My Oliver's diesel engine has never had a rebuild and it starts strong and runs great. How many gas engines from the 50's tractors have not had major overhauls, new heads, rebored cylanders, etc?

 

[RedDog]

Re: Now I\'m really confused...

There is absolutely nothing wrong with an older gas powered tractor!!!

My old Massey 65 and my Dad's 8N Ford with the flat head 6cylinder have never had the motors touched /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

RedDog

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Re: Now I\'m really confused...

Technically there is NOTHING wrong with a GAS tractor. But statistically a DIESEL will out live a GAS engine.

In fact, most diesel engines are rated at about 3 times the longevity as a gas engine. There is a guy with a Volvo car that has a million miles on his gas engine and people make a big deal out of that. There are probably a thousand trucks on the road today with a million miles on their diesel engines and they are just considered normal.

The fact that a few people have great gas tractors does not make up for the fact that MOST gas engines from the 50's or 60's have had to undergo a lot of engine work, and typically a heck of a lot more than a typical diesel of the same period.

And I'm sure there are plenty of bad diesels out there, but the majority of them will way out live a typical gas engine, they will require less maintainence, and they will usually deliver greater torque.

I suppose that if gas engines were as good as diesel engines then all the new compact tractors sold today would have gas engines, or at least a gas option. But NONE of the compact tractors today have gas power, all are diesel. That alone must say something. And if you look at the older tractors like my Oliver Super 55, it was available in either GAS or DIESEL and today if you can find a diesel Super 55 for sale, you can expect to pay a premium price to get it. So that must say something too?

I never said gas was bad, but I did say, and I think the entire tractor industry, trucking industry and equipment industry will stand behing this statement . . . diesel engines are typically more durable, easier to maintain, provide more torque, run longer, and provide more usable power than a gas engine.

So, if you can find a tractor that suits your needs, you probably would be better off with a diesel, but that assumes you can find a diesel tractor that suits your needs and is in good shape and at your price point, etc.

 

[Woodbeef]

Re: Now I\'m really confused...

The biggest problem with older diesels is the technology that was available back then,compared to today. The older diesels are harder starting. Most are indirect injection,or sometype of LaNova sytem,or other. Some older diesels also had gas pup/pony engines to start them.

 

[cowboydoc]

Re: Now I\'m really confused...

The older diesels are harder starting

Man isn't that the truth!!! Don't even try and start my 4430 or my skidsteer if it's under 50 degrees without plugging it in first.

 

[Soundguy]

Re: Now I\'m really confused...

Youve gotten some good ideas... And as for gas vs deisel.. if you are looking for a 50's era tractor.. there were just many more gas options available... the differences are obvious.. but negligible, as long as you know what you are getting into. As far as i know.. cub cadet is making a gas powered compact right now.. not sure of the size, etc.. but looked small like 18-25 hp or so.

As for 8n's not looking like a tractor?... guess that is a matter of opinions... As the N was the first tractor to really use the revolutionary 3 point hitch design.. I can't think of any more 'staple' classic example of a tractor symbol.. but again.. deffinately a subjective issue there.

Soundguy