Used and abused tractor for haying?

[CliffordK]

I'm been around haying for most of my life, but just decided to invest in some equipment.
Concentrating on "square" bales, spring grass. I'll try go get a few small plots to mow. Hopefully building up to around 100 to 200 acres in smaller plots. Much of it will be flat, but I may have some hills.

I found an older Kuhn GMD77, 7 disk mower.
And, it is pretty obvious that my tractor at 20 HP just won't cut it.

According to the Kuhn website, the GMD77 (HD), mine isn't HD, requires 50 HP minimum.

I thought the guy I bought it from said he was running it at 1000 RPM, although everything I see lists 540 RPM for the mower.
I'd like the flexibility of a 2 speed PTO. That is one thing I don't like about tilling with my Ford 1715. It seems like I have to run it at full throttle, low gear to do much.

So, I'm hunting for a good used tractor (Eugene, Oregon).

I'm seeing a few Internataional/Farmall tractors from the 70's and 80's for sale. At this point, I'd rather an "open" tractor rather than a cab. I may change my mind later.

A few that I've noticed.

IH Hydro 84.
58 HP PTO.
540 PTO
Hydro Transmission.
$6500 & $5000
There are two of them for sale locally. One "Running" for $6500, no bucket. One that the seller said he started to rebuild the engine, and all that is left is replacing the injectors, but apparently has been sitting outside mostly done (covered) throughout the winter. This one has a bucket. Asking $5000 Doesn't seem very negotiable.

IH 884 4x4
72 HP PTO.
540/1000 PTO
$7500
Apparently the front differential is not working, cause is not specified. Rear works. It would be a good project to tear apart later, but should be functional enough for now. Has bucket.

IH 1026
Hydro
112 HP PTO
540/1000 PTO
$12000
This one is big, and quite a ways away, so getting it home might be a problem, and a little above the upper end of what I was hoping to fork out.

MASSEY FERGUSON 194F 4x4
75 HP (Engine)
540 PTO
$7850

I've never driven a large tractor (bigger than a lawn mower) with a Hydro transmission, but it seems like it woudl be a good idea for mowing and baling.

I'm thinking about offering the $5K for the Hydro 84 with the stipulation that I can buy injectors, or rebuild the ones with it, but it must drive off the property.

I suppose my questions:

For haying,
Hydro vs Not Hydro? Torque Amplifier?
HP? As mentioned my mower requires a minimum of 50 HP or so. Most balers seem to be around 30-40 HP. So, is 50-60 PTO HP a good target? 60-70 PTO HP? more?
I realize that I do not need a bucket for hay, but they are awfully handy.

 

[murphy1244]

:welcome:

 

[ctlguy]

The only comment I would make about ta tractors is if you replace a ta you will most likely never get those funds back out of the tractor if selling it later, is a tad spendy. The 1026 pricing shown seems steep to me, better be in darn good shape.

 

[jenkinsph]

I think hydro tractors are great. That said I would use gear tractors for your hay work and suggest you not buy a tractor that isn't ready to test and use. You would be buying a pig in a poke imo. Going in the business as a hay producer takes alot of guts, lots of money, know how and good luck. I suggest a thorough business plan or performer to see what all of this costs before committing. Hope it all works out well for you.

My idea of a good old International would be an 806.

 

[CliffordK]

I also thought the 1026 was a bit more than I wanted to pay, and a bit far away, but the hydro transmission sounds nice, and it certainly would have the power for anything I'm likely to throw at it in the near future.

I still like the idea of the Hydro 84 (58 HP PTO), but I'm not sure if it is quite big enough. That is partly what I thought I would ask here.

I would think that if I can get a good tractor with a bucket for around $5K, then it would be able to be resold for the same amount, more or less during the next decade, assuming it is maintained fully functional. Certainly tractors around $2K to $3K range sell quickly. Power is nice, but this does put me just above the market for typical home/yard tractors.

Of course, if I blow a transmisison, it could leave me with a pile of yard art.

I'll probably keep my Ford 1715 for raking, for now. It should be able to handle a 2 basket tedder just fine.

 

[ctlguy]

Unfortunatly the best deals can usually be had in the 100-125 hp range (and higher) for a good used tractor and stay well below the 10k figure. The 90hp and below market is just plain crazy in a lot of the pricing instances even for the older tractors because the demand is there from coast to coast for those machines. Many of the older (70's) large frame tractors are 2wd and so losing popularity in the farming world, that said you could petentially get a better tractor in that larger range with the funds allocated many of those 100-125 units will be a dual speed pto but not all of them. There is many a 540 pto baler, moco, etc being pulled around though with a 1000 pto tractor running at lower rpm's just be careful to not overspeed. I really dont know much about the 84 myself so can't offer a lot of info. 5k to me though sounds also to high for a machine that does not run, actually seems like a premium price for a unit that does run. Good luck in your search. Disk mowers are very forgiving on the hp side but if you ever look to a full blown rotary moco then 100 hp is a must.

 

[SSdoxie]

I think the 1026 is "over kill" for what you need. If the price was much better and closer to you it might be something to think about. Most will say you can't have enough HP but those bigger engines suck more fuel and if you don't need it why feed it? Hydro tanny is nice but for mowing and baliing, not a deal breaker. I don't think 4X4 is essential considering your only going to be making hay when the suns shines, if gorund is that wet stay off of the field.
A loader would be something to consider because if your plan pans out, handleing small squares requires extra man power to load & stack. Depending on who you have available to help, a bale accumulator/stacker might be in you future and good loader to mount it on would be necessary.
IMHO, look around the 60-70 HP in a 2WD or 4WD with a decent FEL on it.

 

[jenkinsph]

Unfortunatly the best deals can usually be had in the 100-125 hp range (and higher) for a good used tractor and stay well below the 10k figure. The 90hp and below market is just plain crazy in a lot of the pricing instances even for the older tractors because the demand is there from coast to coast for those machines. Many of the older (70's) large frame tractors are 2wd and so losing popularity in the farming world, that said you could petentially get a better tractor in that larger range with the funds allocated many of those 100-125 units will be a dual speed pto but not all of them. There is many a 540 pto baler, moco, etc being pulled around though with a 1000 pto tractor running at lower rpm's just be careful to not overspeed. I really dont know much about the 84 myself so can't offer a lot of info. 5k to me though sounds also to high for a machine that does not run, actually seems like a premium price for a unit that does run. Good luck in your search. Disk mowers are very forgiving on the hp side but if you ever look to a full blown rotary moco then 100 hp is a must.[/Quote/]


Buying the 100+ hp market has been more bang for the buck as long as I can remember. Typically these larger tractors get more use per year and the people using them need to keep newer ones that they can depreciate in their business.

 

[CliffordK]

Conditioners seem to have fallen out of favor for grass hay around here.
As I understand it, the drying time is just about the same with a mower that leaves the hay flat on the ground, and the straight mowers are easier on the seeds.

I did see an AC 7030, 2WD, 130 HP PTO, 540/1000 PTO, for under $8K, but I think it sold. But, perhaps I should think more about that range.

 

[ctlguy]

Yes tractors like the 7030, 7020, etc will probably be your best "initial" deal. But as mentioned above your operating costs will be higher because of fuel usage etc. Or oven the 1026 (if the price was cut in 1/2). 986's, 1086's, 1186's etc can also be found for decent prices, gear tranny that shifted poorly when new so made poor loader tractors but good hay tractors. You could also look at Deere 4020 tractors but then will be tougher to stay below 10k if they have a loader. If you don't need a three point dryland tractors can also be a steal but again difficult to sell later on as most users want a three point.