Live vs. Independent PTO - Questions ???

[Neophyte]

I was on the Kubota website and looking at their L3130/4210/TC29D comparison at http://www.kubotagrandl30.com/comparison/l3130.html . I noticed the Kubota and JD had an Independent PTO and the NH had a Live PTO. What is the difference and what are the pros/cons with each?
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I know some older machines and some gear machines still use Transmission PTO. I understand the difference between Transmission PTO and Live PTO. I have also heard it called Live Independent but never Independent PTO. Is it all the same thing?

Also, I was looking at the NH specs at http://www.newholland.com/na/Products/boomer_specs.pdf . I noticed that the mid PTOs were all listed as "Live 2000 RPM" except once you hit the TC35D. Then it changes to "2000 RPM (DIA)". What does this mean? That is, why did they drop the "Live" and add the "(DIA)" and what does "(DIA)" stand for?
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I appreciate any help. Thank you. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[yellowsocks93]

Live PTO runs off of the transmission and you need to be stopped to engage and disengage the PTO with the clutch pedal depressed. This is what my 990 has and I like it. If I depress the clutch down halfway the tractor stops movement and the PTO keeps running. If I depress the clutch down all the way the tractor stops and so does the PTO.

Independent PTO is fully independent from the transmission so you can press the clutch down all the way and the PTO keeps running. You can also engage and disengage the PTO while the tractor is moving.

I do not know what DIA means /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I don't really don't think having the Independent PTO is that big of a deal. On my JD 4300 I have live and I always stopped tractor movement to engage and disengage the PTO anyway and I hate the clutch feel on that tractor. I just made the switch back to a live PTO (JD 990) and thats what I grew up using (JD 970) so I am used to it anyway. I like the fact that I can stop the PTO with the clutch then I don't have to be reaching for levers if I want to stop the PTO for a second. But whatever you prefer is best. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Nick
990 4x4 turf, 272 RFM, 430 loader, 25A flail

 

[OkeeDon]

Without looking up the New Holland specs, my guess is that the "DIA" stands for "Dealer Installed Accessory". I know that some of the Class 3 Boomer's don't have a standard mid-PTO, and I think the TC35 is one of them.

I've never driven any tractor but my TC18 with hydrostatic tranny, and I don't know if they all work the same. I don't know what you'd call my PTO, except "great". It requires using the clutch to engage/disengage the PTO, except that the clutch isn't necessary for the operation of the tractor.

Starting in neutral, I can slip into Low or High range without the clutch, step on the hst pedal and go, release the pedal and stop. When I am on the "go" pedal, pushing in the clutch will also stop the tractor from moving. When I'm using the brush hog, while stopped, I push in the clutch, engage the PTO level, and slowly let out the clutch to get it spinning. The, press the hst pedal and start moving the tractor. I let off the hst pedal to stop the tractor, can slip it into neutral, and the PTO keeps working, since I never used the clutch. When mowing, if I feel the brush hog start to bog down due to really thick grass or an ant hill or something, I press the clutch and both the tractor and the PTO are disengaged at once. Then, I can slowly let out the clutch to see if the mower will spin again, or I can disengage the PTO lever, let out the clutch, back up the tractor, and engage the PTO again. I keep my left foot hovering above the clutch when mowing, and the only time I've broken a shear pin is when I suddenly hit a stump or something and I can't react fast enough to dump the clutch.

The fact that I need to use the clutch to engage the PTO makes it "live", but the fact that I can operate the tractor without the clutch makes it "independent". In fact, just about the only time I use the clutch is to engage the PTO. I've never used the mid-PTO; I assume it works the same way. I keep trying to dream up tings to run off the mid-PTO (maybe a belt-driven cooling fan? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif) but no practical ideas, yet.

 

[Docsknotinn]

Don, please forgive the digression but have you ever tried bass fishing off the blue boomer ? I lived in fla several years and could not help asking based on your location. Dave

 

[HayDR]

Independent is more desirable on larger tractors. When using a disc mower you might want to change gears and it takes skill to change on the fly like this and not stop or slow down the mower. What does this matter, if this happened you would likely not got an even cut there. When baling on hills you often need to gear down for hills and can cause premature clutch wear. Say spreading fertilizer you change gears and just press the clutch a little too far and now you do not have ever distribution. I can think of a 1000 incidences that and independent is more desirable. I have both styles and the Independent is hands down easier to operate.

 

[OkeeDon]

<font color="blue"> have you ever tried bass fishing off the blue boomer ? </font>

LOL - nope, we're about 8 miles from the Big Lake, and 4 miles from the Kissimmee River that feeds it. When we get done, though, I'm going to see if I can get a pontoon boat past the CFO. We are getting a pond - should start it in the next couple of weeks - and don't know whether we will stock bass or catfish. I'm told ponds under 1 acre don't sustain bass and bream very well. Since I seem to be glued to the seat of it, I'm sure I'll have a fishing pole strapped to it, somewhere. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Docsknotinn]

Sounds like a master plan to me ! I recently bought recreational propery and we are in the process of improveing it with roads, food plots, tool shed and on and on ! we have a pretty sizeable piece with the back lower portion being lined by a creek. We have discussed putting in a pond and I was told the same thing, that you need at least an acre to sustain fish. Here it also needs to be at least 12' deep. The big boss says if I want to fish or anything else this year I better do it off the new tractor. I guess I need to find a James bond manual or loan "Q" for a few hours to get a water jet and John bot bottom installed, or maybe a 3pt go devil ! lol

 

[thcri]

OkeeDon,

Your tractor with the Hydro is considered Live PTO. Basically the term "Live PTO" means that you can change, alter the direction, or change speeds the tractor without changing the PTO. It can be accomplished by a two stage clutch or any hydro transmission.

As far as which one is better? Each to his own. Independent is nice but more apt to have problems from what I am told but I personnally don't think you will. I have Live and my TC29D and love it.

murph

 

[Neophyte]

Thanks for all of your posts. I am now enlightened! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif