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  1. #21
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    3,310

    Default Re: Hydro vs Standard Shift?

    I guess I was thinking about Yanmars "powershift" vs their "geardrive" trans. It doesn't have all these drawbacks you refer to, except for the expense part.

    "From: roger_scotty
    Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:28 am
    Subject: Re: What is a powershift tranny?

    A powershift is just a normal gear drive
    transmission with an aux. automatic (fluid driven) clutch
    pack. It is similar in operation to a shuttle shift
    except that it has three forward speeds instead of just
    one. It is not kin to an automatic, torque
    converter, or hydrostatic type of transmission at all. They
    are different and all involve fluid coupling. The
    powershift is direct drive."


  2. #22
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Posts
    951
    Location
    Sierra Foothills, Northern California
    Tractor
    Kubota B7300; JD LX233

    Default Re: Hydro vs Standard Shift?

    Welcome to the site! Checking here before buying will save you lots of headaches...

    If you're a "weekend warrior" type without much tractor experience, get hydro, especially if you'll be getting close to fences or buildings. Geared has advantages for many applications but for most of the work it sounds like you're doing hydro should be fine.

    It is far more forgiving - I remember that every time I see the small gouge my FEL left in the garage siding. Even though I've driven tractors for many years I don't do it often enough to be considered "expert" and I'm guessing if I'd have had a gear drive it would be a rather large hole... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]


  3. #23

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    34
    Location
    Stockbridge, GA
    Tractor
    Kubota B7800

    Default Re: Hydro vs Standard Shift?

    Go with the hydo. I love it on my B7800. On the weekends at our deer camp I wish the JD 2020 had it. Once you use it you want to back. Unless I was doing a lot of heavy dragging or pulling, I would go with the hydro. Go to your dealer and ask how many have traded their hydro back in and got a gear drive?

  4. #24
    Super Member _RaT_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    5,814
    Location
    Northern CA.
    Tractor
    Push mower, Snapper 21" 6 shovels, 2 rakes, a pick, 2 pinch bars, a post hole digger (two handle type) and 2 wheel barrows that handle like a Porsche.

    Default Re: Hydro vs Standard Shift?


    1. Durability
    Well, thats perhaps is more speculation on your part, my local dealers would argue with you to a considerable degree about the durability issue. The hydrostatics have been found to be very durable. I certainly inquired about this prior to even considering a hydrostatic. Secondly, they really are not more expensive to replace then both the clutch and dual clutch packs on todays shuttle tractors. Two kubota dealers in my area have not replaced a HST yet so a definitve cost had not been established. He did say that they do not rebuild the unit, they would get a new unit from the factory. His estimate for the new unit was about $2500. Our new hydraulic dual clutch pack in a NH 2120 was $3200 installed. Had we actually damaged the transmission which does happen on some of the JD 4000 series due to the aluminum shift forks, the cost goes up more. That cost can easily exceed $2500 not including installation.

    2. Loss of power to the ground

    OK, this is true, no doubt. It's small, it may not be of any issue. I should think of more importance would be that in a heavy pulling situation like you would encounter when pulling a set of rippers through the ground hour on end, would be the heat generated by hydros and be a drawback. A manual would be probably be a better choice if this is what you do a considerable amount of.

    3. Difficult to get constant speed #'s

    As you and I have discussed before, about the only time this would be an issue would be when pulling a seeder or perhaps a sprayer. With my cruise control and digital speed readout, providing I'm not climbing a hill, the speed is dead on, cruise control is so easy to use. The gear will slow down going up a hill as well and will also need compensating. Farming applications may benefit from geared in this application but it's getting to be less of an issue.

    4. More expensive to fix.
    See durability. This is not necessarily true. Establishing a value here is difficult.

    5. More expensive initially

    A little bit. On a $20,000 tractor, expect about $1000 more then shuttle shift. The actual cost varies because dealers will work ther price to move more of what they have. In my area, HST is hardly more since it's the dominant transmission in stock.

    6. Speed when using the loader

    Bring em on baby. Lets see a JD 4410 with power reverser vs my L3830HST. No problem. Both work very well, I just know from experience, I'm faster on my HST.

    7. One is not better then the other.

    Absolutely, no question. I own both HST and a manual and use a shuttle quite a bit. They all have their benefits.

    One thing about HST that is often overlooked by folks who don't use HST is their ability to instantly change speed. A real bonus on rough terrain. Their performance here is superb and for the most part, unmatched by any transmission I have used. They not only slow down immediately as your foot relaxes pressure, but the inherent design of HST brakes the tractor simultaneously as well as getting you to the new slower speed. I cannot tell you what a huge benefit this is when mowing areas less then smooth. On a manual, your choice is to lift off on the accelerator which will decrease speed but not nearly as responsively and in doing so, decreases the PTO speed. Other options include slipping the clutch or clutching and braking.

    Rat...

  5. #25
    Elite Member rockyridgefarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    4,455
    Location
    Road 4310
    Tractor
    Deere 4310 HST MFWD

    Default Re: Hydro vs Standard Shift?

    Yeah, what rat said.

    The cruise control is std. with the eHydro, for good reason, Without it things would get pretty choppy mowing a bumpy pasture. I know.

    Every bump moves your foot on the pedal, cusing a lurch that moves you foot on the pedal....

  6. #26
    Super Member _RaT_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    5,814
    Location
    Northern CA.
    Tractor
    Push mower, Snapper 21" 6 shovels, 2 rakes, a pick, 2 pinch bars, a post hole digger (two handle type) and 2 wheel barrows that handle like a Porsche.

    Default Re: Hydro vs Standard Shift?

    Rockyridge, that is not the case for me. For me it's second nature to use the hydro pedal on rough surfaces to instantly speed up or slow down as is necessary and no cruise control. It is a seat of the pants feeling you develop overtime. Having operated a hydro now for two years, I have found it incredibly effective in controlling the jarring bounces the tractor throws at you as travel the uneven terrain. I use it this way while mowing at about 3.7 MPH. To tell you the truth, I rarely ever use the cruise control even though its use is so incredibly easy. Even on the roughest terrain, my foot stays rock steady on the pedal. It's analogus to using a Bobcat Skidsteer. Until your familiar with it though, your in for a real experience unlike a HST compact. Rat...

  7. #27
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,197
    Location
    Upstate N.Y.
    Tractor
    B2620, Toro Z-Master 45 3 (2 3hp Kaw asaki, 52" deck.Kubota RTV 900)

    Default Re: Hydro vs Standard Shift?

    Some excellent points and an interesting thread. I have used all types of tractors, and I agree, use should determine transmission type. I would hate for my BX to not have a hydro tranny. It is used for loader work and finish mowing, with constant back and forth and speed variances. I have done a little farm work in my time, and I could not see where a hydro would be a benefit raking hay, towing silage wagons, discing fields, etc.
    I have spend many hours on backhoes with shuttle shifts, and that is just the ticket for that machine. I suspect the reason why hydros have all but taken over the CUT market has as much to do with what the majority of us do with our tractors, as operator ability. My brother drives a GMC dumptruck everyday, and handles the 10 speed non-synchronized transmission just fine. His B2400 has a hydro, though [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
    Will

  8. #28
    Epic Contributor Bird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Posts
    36,983
    Location
    Texas

    Default Re: Hydro vs Standard Shift?

    I have bounced enough for my foot to bounce on the pedal, but very, very rarely. I always had my heel on the floor and toe on the pedal, so it took something pretty drastic to make my foot bounce on the pedal. And I agree with you, the HST was great for everything I did with my own compact tractor, whether mowing, tilling, box blading, or FEL work. Of course for hay cutting and baling, I was using bigger geared tractors and that was fine, but even for that I would have preferred HST. For raking the hay we were also using bigger tractors, but one day when a tractor broke down, my B7100 pulled a hay rake all day long, in fact, it started out full of fuel and ran out once (no fuel gauge and my friend and neighbor was driving it because I was on the biggest tractor with the baler), but it didn't take me 10 minutes to refuel, bleed the injectors, and get it going again.

  9. #29
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    3,373
    Location
    Goffs Corner, KY
    Tractor
    IH 2444

    Default Re: Hydro vs Standard Shift?

    Maybe the cost is in the kubota thing. I have a friend that had his IH444 ( 40 HP 3900 LBS) dual stage clutch repaired ( all new/rebuilt parts for Under $1,000 at an IH dealer. This included labor. If We take the clutch pack in it is $500.00-$700.00. We would have had to split the tractor and remove/install the clutch ourselves.

  10. #30
    Veteran Member gordon's Avatar
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    Apr 2000
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    1,786
    Location
    Delaware
    Tractor
    L4310hst-loader-hydraulic top link

    Default Re: Hydro vs Standard Shift?

    Yea what rat said! HST is the winner hands down. Only place that a gear tractor would win out is in crop farming.

    But for the average cut owner the hst is the ticket.

    But I did get a good laugh about the gear tractor out preforming an hst doing loader work.

    Something that hasn't been mentioned or I overlooked is safety. Take your foot off the pedal and instant stop. So if you do have a brain freeze, lift your foot. That simple.

    Gordon

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