Hydro vs Standard Shift?

[Typhoon]

I have experience with both hst and gear. To me, the difference is IMMENSE! hst is the winner hands down in my book, for ALL applications, esp if you have a front end loader.. Too many reasons to list. Just my opinion. Make sure and drive both! Good luck!
-Brad

 

[MossRoad]

<font color="blue"> One thing no one mentioned is that the Hydro is a fuel demon in comparison. </font>

I'd like to try to explain why hydros generally use more fuel that gear tractors. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The reason HYDROs use more fuel than gears (in general) is because(one reason, at least) the engine has to run at a higher RPM to deliver full power to the hydraulic pump(s). The hydraulics run better with the high engine RPMs. They are very snappy and have lots of power. If you slow down the engine RPMs, the hydraulics become sluggish. There are some exceptions to this. There is a certain TBN member that has a 56HP Kubota turbo deisel in his Hydro EF-500 that is averaging 0.536 GPH fuel usage /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif That's incredible, even for a gear tractor, let alone a hydro. My guess is that as the years go by, more of the big 3 manufacturers will embrace this technology in CUTS so that the fuel usage will become a non-issue.

Let's say I put a hundred hours on my HST tractor this year. I only use about 1 gallon per hour. Now let's say I have the same tractor with GEARs and I only use 0.5 GPH in fuel(this is a completely hypothetical example, so don't quote the numbers). Now let's say fuel costs $1.50 per gallon. So I spend $150.00 per year on fuel for my HST and I spend $75.00 for my GEAR tractor. The $75.00 more that I spent on the HST spread out over the course of the year more than pays for itself in many ways that I don't want to go into; let's just say I like my HST and would not give it up to save $75.00 per year in fuel.

So, while higher fuel usage could mean big $$ to someone that puts lots of hours on a tractor each year, it may not be that important to the CUT owner that only puts a hundred or two hours on a CUT each year. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Inspector507]

rtimgray,
My TC18 Hydro has cruise, so I'm sure a lot of the other NH units do too. The "rocking" pedal is not too hard to get used to. The NH pedal is just right for my foot. What was hard for me, was learning to NOT push in the clutch. Don't need it /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jerry

 

[MossRoad]

Welcome to TBN! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Just my opinion, but I really like HST over gears for my needs, which are FEL work, mowing, snow removal and occasional brush hogging, to name a few. If we cannot make up your mind, try renting a machine with GEAR and doing some tasks for a day. Then repeat the same tasks with a rented HST machine. This may help make up your mind one way or the other. It is important to compare apples to apples, so be sure to do the same tasks with each type, if possible.

Good luck in your tractor search.

 

[DKinWA]

I've run both, but bought a TC40 gear with the shuttle shift because I prefer it over the hydro. I use my tractor a lot to load my dump truck and to fill the box completely, I have to run the bucket all the way up to maximum height. To do this, I usually set the idle around 1500-1800 rpm and feather the throttle and clutch to speed up the lift and dump cycle. Usually what happens is that I pick up a load from the pile and get to the truck before the bucket is high enough to clear the side boards. When this happens I just push the clutch in a bit and coast while pushing down on the throttle to speed the lift cycle. By then it's a matter of letting off the throttle and clutch to pull all the way up to the truck and dump the bucket.

Now after having said this I don't know for sure that you can't do the same thing with a hydro, but the one I've used you couldn't. I'll also say that it's quite obvious that either one would work quite well for your needs. I'd just pick the one that you're most comfortable with and let the fun begin /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[MossRoad]

<font color="blue">I've run both, but bought a TC40 gear with the shuttle shift because I prefer it over the hydro. I use my tractor a lot to load my dump truck and to fill the box completely, I have to run the bucket all the way up to maximum height. To do this, I usually set the idle around 1500-1800 rpm and feather the throttle and clutch to speed up the lift and dump cycle. Usually what happens is that I pick up a load from the pile and get to the truck before the bucket is high enough to clear the side boards. When this happens I just push the clutch in a bit and coast while pushing down on the throttle to speed the lift cycle. By then it's a matter of letting off the throttle and clutch to pull all the way up to the truck and dump the bucket.

Now after having said this I don't know for sure that you can't do the same thing with a hydro, but the one I've used you couldn't. </font>

In my operator's manual for my IH2500B(50PTO HP HST with FEL) it specifically says to run the thing at almost high throttle settings all the time to obtain maximum control of the hydraulics and drivetrain at all times. This is an important item to point out. Most HST tractors need to be run at high throttle all of the time. This provides pressure to the driveline and hydraulics and also provides proper lubrication.

Anybody our there care to share what the operator's manuals for other brands of tractors with HST say about engine speed? Thanks in advance.

 

[_RaT_]

Good comments Dave. I use a Kubota L4850 for occasional loader use. The shuttle it has is a fantastic transmission. For my HST tractor, I usually find myself using about 1800 to 2000 RPM on the engine and medium range. At this speed, the hydraulics are snappy, the speed is good and the torque is at about max. The same pretty much applies to the L4850. You are correct though, while up against the dump truck, it is a simple thing to depress the clutch and run up the throttle to speed up the loader lift and dump. However, I typically already have the load up and ready to dump with the tractor providing the ground is not sloped. The one advantage I find with loading the truck with HST is the ease of feathering right to the truck without slipping the clutch and the ability to back out in medium which is about 7 mph at full throttle. With the L4850, I must shift to 4th to get to a speed that is somewhat less then that and then reshift to 2nd or 3rd when loading. All in all, they both work quite well for loader use. Sometimes I think were picking the fly poop out of the pepper when comparing these two transmissions. Rat... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[CountryBoy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I suspect the hydro has grown so much in the cut market due to first time buyers. )</font>
I have been operating tractors since about 1966,the old Farmalls,Allis Chalmers with the hand operated clutch,the Ford 8N/Olivers and even my old Mitsubishi Beaver III. I have run corn pickers balers on these WVa hills.I bought a John Deere 4400 hydro and after owning this hydro for 3 years I would not settle for anything but a hydro,infinite speed control and wonderful in a tight place.I mow on hillsides and it is great not to have to reach for the gear shift and not have to be pushing the clutch etc.
Just my humble opinion.

 

[chrisjbell]

<font color="blue"> One thing no one mentioned is that the Hydro is a fuel demon in comparison. </font>

OK, so we've gone into the TBN version of the "Chevy vs. Ford" discussion (or "holy war" if you'll excuse the expression /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif).

But with a CUT we're talking about a machine with a tank that'll run for many hours under load and burn only a few gallons of fuel. These things don't have 40 gallon fuel tanks like the big machines - fuel is probably one of the least expensive operating costs to consider.

So yeah, there are issues about initial cost, power transfer, repair costs, but those turn out to be mostly moot for what most of us use the tractors for (shuttle shift, which can make a machine work much like HST is also an additional cost up front, plus more expensive to fix than straight gear). It really comes down to individual usage patterns.

Best advice I've heard is to rent machines with the types of gearing you're considering (and if you can rent the actual model you're looking at, even better). Then decide. Rental on a tractor is a couple hundred bucks a day, give or take depending on where you are, and is well worth the effort to ensure you wind up with your dream machine.

 

[slowrev]

Some Hydro's have been known to suck air and quit pulling on certain grades of slopes /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif