Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21
  1. #1
    Gold Member Boeing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    440
    Location
    Botetourt, Va
    Tractor
    kubota L3010

    Default Diesels only in EXPENSIVE Foreign cars and EXPENSIVE US TRUCKS....here's WHY

    Ever wonder WHY the entire world (other than the US) has DIESELS in just about everything? Little cars, small pickups from TOYOTA, NISSON, SUBURU, AND FORD, GM..... med and large cars, virtually ALL pickup trucks, etc. And the kicker?.....Many of these vehicles in foreign countries carry the name of FORD, GM, etc...... I saw a beautiful Jeep 4 dr. Wrangler DIESEL in Santa Domingo a few months ago. Not avail in the U.S....WHY?
    WHY?......when we all hear "END THE DEPENDANCE ON FOREIGN OIL!!!" WHY would the government want us NOT to get 30% better milage? less tax revenue? Could THAT be the answer? IS it the OIL interests that prevent this? Less fuel SOLD? Is it DETROIT who doesn't want to put out engines that might go 400,000 miles?
    I fly throughout Europe and South/Central America and see almost EVERY MOTOR VEHICLE is powered by DIESEL. They have expensive fuel and this is the way that they have addressed it.
    WHY...are these options not available to us? WHY...can we not get diesels in our small-mid size cars while other nations can?
    WHY....can we not even import them????????

    Here's a clue from a "Graymarket" search....

    United States

    The United States continues to use a unique set of safety and emission regulations administered by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) for motor vehicles, which differ significantly from the international UN Regulations used throughout the rest of the world. Vehicle manufacturers thus face considerable expense to type-certify a vehicle for U.S. sale, at a cost estimated to be upward of USD $2 million per vehicle model. This cost particularly affects low-volume manufacturers and models, most notably the makers of high end sports cars. However, larger companies such as Alfa Romeo and Peugeot have also cited costs of 吐ederalizing their vehicle lineups as a disincentive to re-enter the U.S. market.

    NHTSA and Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) regulations criminalise the possession of a vehicle not meeting U.S. standards. Even Canadian-market vehicles may not meet these requirements. Exceptions exist for foreign nationals touring the U.S. in their own vehicle and for cars imported for show or display purposes.

    Because of the unavailability of certain car models, demand for grey market vehicles arose in the late 1970s. Importing them into the US involved modifying or adding certain equipment, such as headlamps, sidemarker lights, and a catalytic converter as required by the relevant regulations. The NHTSA and EPA would review the paperwork and then approve possession of the vehicle. It was also possible for these agencies to reject the application and order the automobile destroyed or re-exported. The grey market provided an alternate method for Americans to acquire desirable vehicles, and still obtain certification. Tens of thousands of cars were imported this way each year during the 1980s.

    The Lamborghini Countach was one of the first grey market vehicles, and the Range Rover and Mercedes-Benz G-Class were initially available only through the grey market. Other vehicles that entered the US in small numbers via the grey market included the CX and Renault 5 Turbo. This avenue of vehicle availability was increasingly successful, especially in cases where the US model of a vehicle was less powerful and/or less well equipped than versions available in other markets. For example, Mercedes-Benz chose to offer only the lower-output 380SEL model in 1981 to Americans, some of whom wanted the much faster 500SEL available in the rest of the world. BMW had the same issue with their 745i Turbo. The grey market was successful enough that it ate significantly into the business of Mercedes-Benz of North America and their dealers. The corporation launched a successful million-dollar congressional lobbying effort to stop private importation of vehicles not officially intended for the U.S. market. An organisation called AICA (Automotive Importers Compliance Association) was formed by importers in California, Florida, New York, Texas, and elsewhere to counter some of these actions by Mercedes lobbyists, but the Motor Vehicle Safety Compliance Act was passed in 1988, effectively ending private import of grey-market vehicles to the United States. No evidence was presented that grey-import vehicles' safety performance differed significantly from that of US models, and there have been allegations of improper lobbying, but the issue has never been raised in court.

    The grey market declined from 66,900 vehicles in 1985 to 300 vehicles in 1995.[2] It is no longer possible to import a non-US vehicle into the United States as a personal import, with four exceptions, none of which permits Americans to buy recent vehicles not officially available in the United States.


    [/I][/B][/FONT]

  2. #2
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    3,611
    Location
    Grayson County, TX
    Tractor
    Kubota B2710

    Default

    Yes it does sound fishy. However if it fact the cost to certify is two million per model, considering the volume of sales I doubt that would be a big deterrent. I believe the fact is that diesels just cost a lot more to build, especially to meet u.s. emission standards. And American customers just are not willing to pay that premium. Not to mention that diesel is more expensive than gas, making the fuel cost similar to gas overall.
    Alan L., TX
    South of Bugtussle
    North of Mustang
    On the banks of Buck Creek
    We don't rent pigs.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member CliffordK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,202
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Tractor
    Toro D200, Ford 1715, International 884,

    Default Re: Diesels only in EXPENSIVE Foreign cars and EXPENSIVE US TRUCKS....here's WHY

    I agree,
    Perhaps 40 years ago, there were important safety differences between US models and European models. I have a Grey Market Fiat from the 60's, and a US model of the same car, and the bumpers are substantially heavier, although I don't believe that it made the car substantially safer.

    Today, the European models are equally "safe" as US models, although I might still be a little suspicious about a car such as the Tata Nano

    There are still a few "grey market" cars. The first Smart Cars came over as grey market cars. If a car has already been certified in the USA, then it may be substantially easier to bring in closely related cars.

    And, of course, there is an exception to the rule allowing one to import cars over 25 years old. So, rather than importing a nice clean, safe modern Diesel, one can always hunt down a good smoky one from the 80's with questionable safety standards.

    See the World Forum for Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations, of which the USA and Canada are NOT members. My guess is that a large part of is that the EPA and DOT wish to maintain their own bureaucracy.

  4. #4
    Silver Member jonnyc1999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    172
    Location
    King William, VA
    Tractor
    Bobcat CT122

    Default Re: Diesels only in EXPENSIVE Foreign cars and EXPENSIVE US TRUCKS....here's WHY

    I've heard the argument that diesels are more expensive to make many times, but isn't an engine an engine? Is it because there are fewr diesels being produced, so the volume discount is less? I would think that this is more important as more aluminum diesel engines are manufactured. Right?

  5. #5
    Veteran Member CliffordK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,202
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Tractor
    Toro D200, Ford 1715, International 884,

    Default Re: Diesels only in EXPENSIVE Foreign cars and EXPENSIVE US TRUCKS....here's WHY

    The Diesels, of course, have to deal with higher compression. The injection pumps would have been more complicated than the old carburettors, but perhaps that is all changing today with injected auto engines and all the electronic controls.

    How much more could it add to the production cost? $500? $1000? For a "cheap" $20K car, that would mean $20K vs $21K (plus a bit more for the novelty).

    As I understand it, sulfur has been a problem with adding catalytic converters to Diesel engines, but that is no longer the case. Turbocharging helps with cleaning the emissions, but particulates remain. Now with the DPF and Urea, the Diesel engines with all the smog controls should be clean enough (although the smog stuff does add to the purchase and operation costs).

    I think part of the problem is that auto manufactures are very slow to adapt to consumer desires. For years, there has been a push for better HP in the USA, and better mileage elsewhere.

  6. #6
    Elite Member newbury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,071
    Location
    From Vt, in Va, retiring to MS
    Tractor
    Kubota's - B7610, M4700

    Default Re: Diesels only in EXPENSIVE Foreign cars and EXPENSIVE US TRUCKS....here's WHY

    Perhaps you should consider the AVERAGE American consumer.
    I've been driving diesels since I bought a 1979 Diesel VW Rabbit (50 mpg around town, 65 mpg on a trip).

    They want FAST. Diesels have usually been "slow" on acceleration. My '88 Ford E350 accelerates like a cabin cruiser. This has changed, my '09 TDI can get up to speed fairly fast.

    They want CHEAP. Diesel engines are more costly. My diesels cost 3K to 5K more than the gas variant.

    They want convenience. Until about the last 5 or 10 years diesel fuel stations were sparse in the US. This is changing.

    They want quiet. This is changing. My jetta is quiet.

    Up until the recent recession they changed cars frequently. Diesels are for the long term. I trust used diesels like used chainsaws. You never know if some dumb bo put in straight gas.

    The diesel history for the American industry (GM etc) in the passenger car is terrible because of the cheap corporate managers that modified slightly a gas engine and sold it to the public.

    And most women I know don't like the smell of diesel.

    It's only been about the last 10 years that gas has been above $2/gallon

    Historical Gas Price Charts - GasBuddy.com

    So why save energy?
    My rides - '95 Kubota M4700 w/ PEC, LA1001 FEL :'07 B7610, LA352 FEL, Bush Hog SBX 48 box blade, '09 Woods BH70-X w/ 16" bucket and thumb, 3pt pallet forks, Dale Phillips PHD, Jinma 8" chipper, Winco 12KW PTO generator, Howse plow, 5' KK tiller with a 2002 7.3L Ford F350 CC DRW 4x4 and '07 18' Hudson HSE Deluxe trailer - 5 Ton to haul it all

  7. #7
    Gold Member soulasphil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    494
    Location
    France
    Tractor
    JD 3520 powerreverser

    Default Re: Diesels only in EXPENSIVE Foreign cars and EXPENSIVE US TRUCKS....here's WHY

    Another aspect of the question is that refineries produce both diesel and gas. In countries like France, where a strong majority of cars are diesel, there is a vast excess of gas. We are very happy to sell it to the US. So please don't change your ways and continue enjoying cheap gas (which in my opinion also gives a more comfortable ride).
    3520 PR

  8. #8
    Veteran Member coobie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    2,243
    Location
    S.Michigan
    Tractor
    Kubota RTV 900, JD 740,Kioti DK 40 with KL401 loader 2011 ford F250.

    Default Re: Diesels only in EXPENSIVE Foreign cars and EXPENSIVE US TRUCKS....here's WHY

    Where is Jesse Ventura?Maybe he can investigate this?
    Kioti DK40se hst cab with KL401 loader,Kubota RTV 900,John deere X740,Kioti 73 inch tiller.Ingersoll 4020 3pt,troy bilt tiller,Billy goat brush cutter.

  9. #9
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    111
    Location
    8400' Colo high mountain plains
    Tractor
    Bobcat CT445HST, HTP-2400

    Default Re: Diesels only in EXPENSIVE Foreign cars and EXPENSIVE US TRUCKS....here's WHY


  10. #10
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    398
    Location
    Albion, Indiana
    Tractor
    1710 Ford

    Default Re: Diesels only in EXPENSIVE Foreign cars and EXPENSIVE US TRUCKS....here's WHY

    There are a few reasons diesels are more popular in Europe but the two main ones are the differential in fuel pricing - gas historically has been much more expensive, approximately double but this is not true anymore, and the taxes on the cars was based on engine size. For instance a 3.0L V6 might cost you $2500/year in taxes just to own. Diesels put out more power per displaced volume and therefore it was a good way to power small cars and stay away from the taxes. have you ever wondered why there were so many 1.9L European engines.

    Furthermore the former Big 3 loved the various regulations because of the cost to another company to enter the market, i.e. barrier to entry. This is why a lot of foreign companies started with small cars - easier to meet the emissions as the regulations were written.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Rusty cars and trucks
    By tallyho8 in forum Related Topics
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 04-22-2010, 11:30 AM
  2. Expensive...Enough...Already!
    By oldballs in forum Owning/Operating
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 03-24-2010, 11:43 PM
  3. Least Expensive
    By RSKY in forum Buying/Pricing/Comparisons
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 11-06-2009, 07:53 AM
  4. Wrecked cars/trucks
    By Scott_in_WVA in forum Related Topics
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-21-2002, 11:07 PM
  5. Expensive Hat!
    By gator2 in forum New Holland Owning/Operating
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 10-26-2000, 07:17 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
© 2013 TractorByNet.com. TractorByNet is a registered trademark of IMC Digital Universe, Inc. Other trademarks on this page are the property of their respective owners.