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  1. #11
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    556
    Location
    Minnesota
    Tractor
    JD 990 4WD

    Default Re: Opinions requested on price and performance

    Sounds like a pretty decent deal on that used outfit. I would drive it to see how you like the gear transmission.

    I went with a gear tractor. While hydro would've been nice, it would've cost me a lot more money.

  2. #12
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    3,310

    Default Re: Opinions requested on price and performance

    I have never driven anything other than my "unsynchro gear drive" Yanmar, so don't know about any other, but isn't a hydrostatic trans just an automatic? How are they safer than a gear drive, and isn't ground speed totally dependent on rpm's? I assume there is a "hi" and "low". It would seem to me that a "shuttleshift or "powershift" would be the best of both worlds where you can easily shift between gears, or forward/reverse without the clutch but still have a ton of gears to select.

  3. #13
    Epic Contributor Bird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Posts
    36,983
    Location
    Texas

    Default Re: Opinions requested on price and performance

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( isn't a hydrostatic trans just an automatic? )</font>

    It has some things in common with an automatic transmission, but is also quite different in many ways.

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( How are they safer than a gear drive )</font>

    I really don't care to start that battle over again. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Some of us think they're safer and some do not, but the reason I do is simply because (like an automatic) you can start, go, and stop without using the clutch, you have infinite speed control; i.e., you can barely move slowly without concerning yourself with engine RPM or a foot slipping off the clutch, and you almost never need to use the brakes; simply let up on the hydro pedal and the tractor stops.

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( isn't ground speed totally dependent on rpm's? )</font>

    Not exactly. If you are at idle speed on the RPM, naturally you are not going to go very fast, no matter how far down you push the hydro pedal. On the other hand with the throttle wide open, or at PTO speed, you can control ground speed from zero, to barely creeping, to the tractor's maximm speed without every changing the engine RPM.

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( I assume there is a "hi" and "low". )</font>

    There are lots of different hydrostatics from riding mowers with a single "range" to small tractors (like my B7100 and others) with a high and low range, to slightly larger (like my B2710 and on up to pretty large tractors) with three ranges (high, medium, and low).

    Norm, my first thought was that you need to stop by a tractor dealer and try out a hydrostatic tractor to see for yourself the difference, however, on second thought, I'd recommend that you not do that 'cause then you'll never again be satisfied with your "unsynchro gear drive" Yanmar. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  4. #14
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Posts
    951
    Location
    Sierra Foothills, Northern California
    Tractor
    Kubota B7300; JD LX233

    Default Re: Opinions requested on price and performance

    Bird covered it pretty well, but my extra $0.02 is that for a lot of the people that buy CUTs hydro is a good safety measure. It is not an automatic. You have a foot control with one pedal for "forward" and one for "reverse". When you are in gear (one of the drive ranges is selected - on mine there are two, on larger units there are more), regardless of the engine speed you don't move on flat ground. Even on hills you'd barely move.

    To go forward, you push one pedal. Again, regardless of engine speed if you barely push it you barely move. Like Bird said, if you're at idle you won't go fast even if you push it to the floor (and the engine won't be real happy about that [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]). So there is a relation between ground speed and engine speed, but mostly you regulate speed with one pedal.

    To stop, you just stop pushing down on the pedal. The tractor can lurch to a stop quite fast if you're at speed. As far as gearing selection - you don't have to worry about that. The harder you press on the pedal the more engine power is sent through the transmission.

    Hmm, not sure if this clarifies things any better than Bird's post, but since I've typed it all out I'm going to go ahead and put it out there [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]...

  5. #15
    Elite Member rockyridgefarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    4,455
    Location
    Road 4310
    Tractor
    Deere 4310 HST MFWD

    Default Re: Opinions requested on price and performance

    I live in a very similar situation as the original poster. I have had a Yanmar and now own a hydrostatic. I have been in run away situations with the Yanmar, and it didn't even have a FEL. The hydro WILL stop if I lift my foot from the pedal.

    The original poster indicated that he was a newbie, and has lots of hills. The only problem I see with the deal he found is that, in my experience, the HST has been well worth the additianal expence. I would recommend a new buyer at least understand it before plunking down his money.

    I freely admit that experienced operators may have no safety issues with gear models. But in normal useage, it is pretty easy to find oneself in a precarious situation, that I find that HST lets me handle with far greater safety.


  6. #16
    New Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    18
    Location
    hawaii / arkansas

    Default Re: Opinions requested on price and performance

    Mike,
    I agree with you. Even though this tractor seems to be a good deal, I'd be best off continuing with my shopping and actually test drive an HST before I hand over the cash.

    Thank you all for the great advice.

    Fred

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    148
    Location
    Central California Foothills
    Tractor
    Kubota 3410

    Default Re: Opinions requested on price and performance

    I am a novice. I have only owned one tractor and I bought that one (kubota 3410 HST) on August first this year. I have put about 20 hours on the tractor. I have never operated any other tractor with any other transmission so I cannot offer comparisons. But what I can say is that:

    - it is very, very easy to operate - I am truly greatful I did not follow my instincts and go with any other transmission just because I could have saved a bit of money - over the time you will likely own the tractor the cost difference is not really a factor.

    - Safety is not the only issue. I know I have saved much time, and work and perhaps frustrations, with FEL work, mowing work and box blade work simply because I have the HST. You can go in reverse or change to forward about as quickly as you can change your mind. In a sense, the tractor is already in whatever directional gear you want - just push the pedal and away you go in the direction you want.

    -I cannot conceive of having anything else given how easy I can work with the HST.

    -Safety is, however, also an issue. I live in the hills and while I frequently have to recalibrate the pucker index (when I get too confident or too comfortable) - there have been a number of situations in which I was very, very glad I had the HST.

    -it takes a very short time before the things you need to know and do with it are intuitive - using the HST pedal (Kubota has one pedal), in combination with the throttle and gear ranges.

    While it costs a bit more, knowing what I now know about the ease of use, I would pay much more than the additional sum I paid for the HST transmission in order to have it. Bird's recommendation to go and operate one with the HST is the right way to go.

  8. #18
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    1,001
    Location
    Vermont
    Tractor
    NH TC33D

    Default Re: Opinions requested on price and performance

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( isn't a hydrostatic trans just an automatic?)</font>

    There is a good bit of difference. Most automotive-type automatic transmission is basically a gear transmission that does the shifting for you (yeah, I know, it's more complicated than that). A simple explanation of a hydrostatic transmission: the tractor engine drives a hydraulic pump, and this pump pumps hydraulic fluid to a hydraulic motor which drives the wheels. You can vary the speed by changing the RPMs of the tractor's diesel engine. You can also vary the speed by changing the displacement of the hydraulic pump (i.e. how much fluid the pump moves for every revolution of its input shaft).

    This lets you keep your engine RPMs up to get your max horsepower, but still creep along slowly by setting the pump to a very low displacement. In fact you can vary the pump all the way down to zero, or to a "negative" displacement (the fluid pumps the other direction in the hydraulic circuit) -- this is how you get reverse "gear" with a hydrostatic transmission. Now on top of all of this, many HST tractors also have several ranges which are basically different gear ratios.

    John McNerney

  9. #19
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    2,088

    Default Re: Opinions requested on price and performance

    Is a hydrostatic the same as an automatic? No. Would you control your downhill speed by shifting an automatic to reverse and hitting the gas?

    I've done essentially that with the HST. Nose down in a swale steep enough that if you lift up on the hydro pedal, it still wants to roll down, unless you use the brake. Positioning the bucket to get exactly the load you want. Rather than use the brake, it's a lot easier and safer to use the "backup pedal" to control the speed than to use the brake - if, when digging, the bucket gets a little heavy and starts to pull you down, you just apply a little more pressure to the "backup pedal" and hold yourself in position. If the pucker factor gets really intense, you just actually back up gently while dropping the bucket. And, once the bucket is full and lifted, you're already "backing up" I wouldn't want to try that with gears, clutch and throttle, and have to shift to reverse somewhere in the middle of the operation. Even with power shuttle shift, you've got to work the throttle. WIth the HST, it's a ballet on one pedal. With gears and clutch, you'd be clog dancing.

    The closest thing to it would be a power shuttle shift with a foot throttle and a release button on the shifter to release the clutch when necessary, still having to use the brake, and you don't find power shuttle shifts on compact tractors.

  10. #20
    Super Member JerryG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    7,171
    Location
    Northwest Arkansas
    Tractor
    MF 1440-4 PowerShuttle

    Default Re: Opinions requested on price and performance

    <font color="blue"> Even with power shuttle shift, you've got to work the throttle. WIth the HST, it's a ballet on one pedal. With gears and clutch, you'd be clog dancing.

    The closest thing to it would be a power shuttle shift with a foot throttle and a release button on the shifter to release the clutch when necessary, still having to use the brake, and you don't find power shuttle shifts on compact tractors.

    </font>

    Actually, you can have the throttle at an increased RPM and flip the lever to reverse. If working with the loader, I most often leave the throttle up. I don't know if other manufacture have easy clutch engagement or not, but MF does or mine does anyway with powershuttle.

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